During the Vietnam War a range of heraldic emblems was created. Perhaps the bestknown of these is the MACV SSI.
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The symbolism is described as follows on the TIOH site:
"Yellow and red are the Vietnam colors. The red ground alludes to the infiltration and aggression from beyond the embattled "wall" (i.e., the Great Wall of China). The opening in the "wall" through which this infiltration and aggression flow is blocked by the sword representing United States military aid and support. The "wall" is arched and the sword pointed upward in reference to the offensive action pushing the aggressors back."
It was originaly approved for US Army Personnel serving in Vietnam on 5 March 1963 and extendedto wear by personnel serving with the U.S. Military Assistance Command Vietnam (MACV) on 10 February 1966.
Less known perhaps is the U.S. Army Vietnam SSI:
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The TIOH site gives the symbolism as "Yellow and red are the colors of Vietnam. The blue center represents the United States, together with the sword it alludes to the U.S. Military in Vietnam."
It was approved 10 February 1966
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SSI of the I Field Force, approved 5 October 1966. The TIOH site describes the symbolism of this SSI: "The crusader’s sword (the "Sword of Freedom") was suggested by the shoulder sleeve insignia previously authorized for the United States Military Assistance Command, Vietnam, and the United States Army, Vietnam. The one diagonal refers to the numerical designation of the I Field Force. The sword "piercing" the red area alludes to the constant probing of enemy territory and positions and the driving back and crushing of enemy forces. The colors red, white and blue are the national colors of the United States, and the colors yellow and red, are those of Vietnam. The colors blue, red and yellow are also those of the three major combat arms: Infantry, Artillery and Armor. The silhouette of the shield is shaped like a battle-ax to symbolize the smashing power of the I Field Force and the constant combat readiness of its personnel to engage the enemy. The battle-ax shape, in itself, is also an additional I Field Force identification."
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DUI of the I Field Force, approved 4 October 1968. To the symbolism has a green mountain been added symbolising the Central Highlands of the Republic of Vietnam. The Highlands was the main operating area of the I Field Force.
I Field Force was headquartered in Nha Trang and operated in the II Corps Tactical Zone covering the 12 provinces of the Central Highlands.
Thanks Marcus! My dad is a Vet as is his brother my uncle of this particular war. Even though my dad spends precious little time on the internet - or computer for that matter - I’m going to try and convince him to check this particular thread out none-the-less.
Donnchadh wrote:
Thanks Marcus! My dad is a Vet as is his brother my uncle of this particular war. Even though my dad spends precious little time on the internet - or computer for that matter - I’m going to try and convince him to check this particular thread out none-the-less.
Denny,
What unit was your dad with? Not everyone wore a MacV patch. If you can find the name of his unit we can find the patch he wore.
—Guy
Donnchadh glad you enjoyed my tread, I like to see it as a small tribute to all Vietnam Vets like your dad. As Guy wrote if you know which unit he was in we could find the patch.
I continue with the II Field Force (The Field Forces where Corps Sized Units). Headquartered at Long Binh the II Field Force operated in III Corps Tactical Zone surrunding Saigon.
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SSI of the II Field Force, approved 5 October 1966. The TIOH site gives the symbolism as "The shape of the shield and the unsheathed crusader’s sword (the "Sword of Freedom") were suggested by the shoulder sleeve insignia previously authorized for the United States Military Assistance Command, Vietnam, and the United States Army, Vietnam. The stylized blue arrow and sword are used to represent the purpose and military might of the II Field Force pressing against, sweeping back, and breaking through enemy forces symbolized by the red areas. The dividing of the red and yellow areas of the shield into two parts allude to the numerical designation of the II Field Force, the colors red and yellow also being those of Vietnam. The colors red, white and blue are the national colors of the United States and further allude to the three major combat arms: Infantry, Artillery and Armor."
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II Field Force DUI, approved 27 November 1968. TIOH gives the symbolism as "The operations and numerical designation are indicated by the scarlet and gold (yellow) device in the shape and background design of the authorized shoulder sleeve insignia of the II Field Force, Vietnam, and by the unsheathed Crusader sword which has become associated with Vietnam and the blue stylized arrow both of which were also suggested by the shoulder sleeve insignia and when taken together allude to the numeral II (or Second). The scarlet and gold (yellow) background and green palm fronds refer to the major combat operational area of the II Field Force which includes the defense of Saigon. The palm fronds are also symbolic of successful achievement."
Donnchadh wrote:
Thanks Marcus! My dad is a Vet as is his brother my uncle of this particular war. Even though my dad spends precious little time on the internet - or computer for that matter - I’m going to try and convince him to check this particular thread out none-the-less.
The reason you want to do this, I suppose, is that you have found something that you can share with your Uncle and Father. A good reason, but I’d expect they wouldn’t show too much enthusiasm beyond a nice "thank you" for showing it to them. Not all veterans like to be reminded of the grim times they had. Of course, I’m basing my thoughts on the assumption that they were infantry or artillary or such and were in the theater of war. Now if they were in a support unit somewhere, that could make a difference.
Ed, its been a long time since we all came home. Some aspects of the war would likely not be that welcome (e.g. graphic photos of wounded, etc.). But the simple, clean, brightly colored emblems of our various units aren’t likely (for me at least) to be upsetting.
But then I can only really speak for myself; other vets may react differently.
Mike~~
25th Infanrty Division
Cu Chi, RVN 1968-69
Michael F. McCartney wrote:
... But the simple, clean, brightly colored emblems of our various units aren’t likely (for me at least) to be upsetting. 25th Infanrty Division
Cu Chi, RVN 1968-69
Here ya go Mike, the "Electric Strawberry"
Thanks guys. I will ask dad. I did once not too long ago at Mike M’s request and dad never got back to me. Great man and a personal hero of mine, but after serving in law enforcement for 22 years (where he was a detective, agent rank and worked auto theft, gang unit, K-9, juvenile offenders, and unfortunately crime scene investigation) after he got out of the military he has moved away to his property in the mountains and spends his time fishing, boating, hunting and golfing. I don’t blame him, but sometimes I think he is busier in retirement than he was as a policeman.
Anyway I will ask him and Uncle Pat exactly where they belonged, but I do know that Uncle Pat was in the Air Force and worked as a Communications guru (after his service he was in on the ground floor of computers in California…) where he was an E-8 and stationed at Guam; he still does not talk about what he did exactly and says he can’t, but I can’t see that it would be all that serious these days, but I’m happy he still keeps mum – our family’s sense of pride I think…
As for Dad, I know he was an E-5 and in the US Army. Where and what he did exactly I don’t know for sure, but I do know he said that he was basically a sergeant and had men under him and other sergeants over him etc. He was in Vietnam, but again I don’t recall exactly what he did…in fact he talked about it only when Uncle Pat or some of his old friends were around and then it was mostly a “get outta here kid” kind of attitude by them. So, I just learned to accept it as such.
They wouldn’t take me however, as I have asthma. I tried after I graduated and passed up my baseball scholarship (I was in love and engaged and thought that’d be the best way to take care of a wife and family and get an education and serve my country and follow in my dad, uncle’s, paternal and maternal grandfather’s, my paternal great-grandfather’s and paternal GG-grandfather’s shoes). I tried again after 9-11 and again a year and a half ago. But, they have not changed their policy on asthma, so, now that I’m 34 and have a couple of college degrees and working on a third, well, I guess that is just never going to happen for me. So be it.
But, I have a great, sincere respect for and am even a bit awestruck of those who’ve served. Thanks again for the military insignia and for those that served our nation in Vietnam especially.
Michael F. McCartney wrote:
Ed, its been a long time since we all came home. Some aspects of the war would likely not be that welcome (e.g. graphic photos of wounded, etc.). But the simple, clean, brightly colored emblems of our various units aren’t likely (for me at least) to be upsetting.
But then I can only really speak for myself; other vets may react differently.
Mike~~
25th Infanrty Division
Cu Chi, RVN 1968-69
Well, Mike, you are right. Its been one generation and two wars since Viet Nam. And theres been plenty opportunity to work out post war stress. Besides the world is short on thankfullness in many ways and a little gratitude never hurts.
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SSI of the 18th MP Brigade, approved 1 june 1966. The 18th commanded all non divisional MP units in Vietnam. The TIOH gives the symbolismas "Green and yellow are the colors of the Military Police Corps. The fasces, an ancient symbol of the magistrate’s authority, and the sword for the military are combined to symbolize military law and order."
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DUI of the 18th MP Brigade, approved 1 June 1966 and amended to update the description and symbolism 9 May 1985. The TIOH gives the symbolism as "The background represents the day (yellow/gold color) and the night (black) over which the strong watchful eye of the military police, here represented by the lion’s head, is in constant vigilance."
Edward Wenzl;32621 wrote:
Well, Mike, you are right. Its been one generation and two wars since Viet Nam. And theres been plenty opportunity to work out post war stress. Besides the world is short on thankfullness in many ways and a little gratitude never hurts.
Edward, You never get over the stress.
I’m not doing this for sympathy, or anything else. I just want to help people to understand. Many, like my self and my brother, (from all wars) will never get over the stress and other factors that go with PTSD. Meds and counseling help with the nightmares, the outbursts and the "shakes". I was there during Tet as a medic. There are times when I would put my family through hell. Several years ago my wife told me she almost left me but stuck with me. She told me her and our kids felt they had to walk on egg shells. She stuck with me and we had our 47th anniversary last Oct.
My brother is now on his third marriage. He was in the Marines, lost his right leg and spent 18 months in a Navy hospital.
You never get over the time you spent in that hell hole
Most folks at home think of "the" war (whichever war, whether WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf 1, Gulf 2, the Balkans…) but for those who were there, every vet’s experience - each one’s own war - was his own, different in some ways from anyone else’s, even in their own unit. The externals may have been similar or even ident8cal, but the internal experience was those externals as perceived, filtered, and interpreted based on what each of us brought with us - our personal histories, hopes and fears. Returning home, our experiences also different depending on how we were received, honored or spat on. Some of us got over most of it relatively quickly, some longer, some never or at least not yet. And some have been able to fuñction fairly well, but still have the occasional flashback or delayed reactions.
For me, after 46+ years, seeing the various unit insignia is mostly a welcome bit of eye candy and remembered pride; with the occasional bittersweet memories and the not infrequent "yeah, right…" amazement at the Madison Avenue sound of some of the stated rationale behind some of the desdigns; but overall positive. Ohers may of course react any number of different ways, depending on their individual experiences of their own personal war.
Sorry for the long-winded ramble…
Michael F. McCartney;105396 wrote:
Most folks at home think of "the" war (whichever war, whether WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf 1, Gulf 2, the Balkans…) but for those who were there, every vet’s experience - each one’s own war - was his own, different in some ways from anyone else’s, even in their own unit. The externals may have been similar or even ident8cal, but the internal experience was those externals as perceived, filtered, and interpreted based on what each of us brought with us - our personal histories, hopes and fears. Returning home, our experiences also different depending on how we were received, honored or spat on. Some of us got over most of it relatively quickly, some longer, some never or at least not yet. And some have been able to fuñction fairly well, but still have the occasional flashback or delayed reactions.
For me, after 46+ years, seeing the various unit insignia is mostly a welcome bit of eye candy and remembered pride; with the occasional bittersweet memories and the not infrequent "yeah, right…" amazement at the Madison Avenue sound of some of the stated rationale behind some of the desdigns; but overall positive. Ohers may of course react any number of different ways, depending on their individual experiences of their own personal war.
Sorry for the long-winded ramble…
Thank you
