Baker Arms

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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14 May 2007 20:20
 

Almost. The bird is still standing like an alert bird of prey rather that a member of the family Columbidae. Lean the weight of the dove a bit more to the front of the bird. In other words, make the dove more horizontal than vertical.

http://www.english-country-garden.com/a/i/birds/collared-dove-1.jpg

 

http://files.myopera.com/Dudley/albums/28618/3218wb_Dove.jpg

 

http://www.birding.in/images/Birds/spotted_dove.jpg

 

http://www.northrup.org/Photos/dove/low/dove-birdfeeder.jpg

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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16 May 2007 21:19
 

Okay, everybody….

Most of my brainstorming has been on the chatroom for the past couple of days.  And here are the results.  I’ve decided on a Motto for myself.  It is "The Crisis Reveals the Man."  All that leaves is a badge and then I am finished with my achievement.  With that in mind, here are some of the badge ideas I’ve been batting around, and I need some comments/criticism.

 

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/jonishairy/Heraldry/BakerBadgeOptions.gif

 

 

Remember to judge these based on design, not depiction, as once I’ve made a decision I’ll get a proper emblazonment instead of these messy clipart renditions I make.  Once I’ve chosen one of these, I’ll just need to get badges/mottoes for my father and grandfather and I consider the Baker arms well and truly finished..

 

Thanks,

 
IGNATIUSDMC
 
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IGNATIUSDMC
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16 May 2007 22:15
 

I like the top two best of those presented.

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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16 May 2007 22:29
 

I prefer the éstoile badge above the walking bear but I would make the following alterations, the bear’s tounge Or as in your crest and change the bear’s head to erased from couped.

I am not sure if the walking bear is also a proposed badge, if it is, I prefer it above all others as long as the colours conform to those in your crest, that is langued, armed and eyed Or.

 
Andrew J Vidal
 
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Andrew J Vidal
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16 May 2007 22:31
 

I agree, I like the first two.  I’m more inclined to lean towards the second though, for some reason it seems a little softer on the eyes.  To me, the argent seems a little harsh.

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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17 May 2007 08:00
 

Hey, Jerb.

As you know, from our discussion last night, I prefer the bear all by himself for the reasons we discussed. You spoke about how the bear was kinda like an animal totem, or spirit animal, for you. Have you considered presenting it in a Native American style?

 
Trent
 
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Trent
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17 May 2007 09:48
 

How about a bear’s head cabossed Sable on a star Argent?

Or a bear passant Sable charged on the shoulder with a star Argent?

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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17 May 2007 10:10
 

David Pritchard;44998 wrote:

I prefer the ├ęstoile badge above the walking bear but I would make the following alterations, the bear’s tounge Or as in your crest and change the bear’s head to erased from couped.

I am not sure if the walking bear is also a proposed badge, if it is, I prefer it above all others as long as the colours conform to those in your crest, that is langued, armed and eyed Or.


The bear passant is a proposed badge, but I should have langued it Or as in my crest.

 

As for the estoile badge, here it is with your alterations:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/jonishairy/Heraldry/BakerBadge1-5.gif


Patrick Williams;45004 wrote:

Hey, Jerb.

As you know, from our discussion last night, I prefer the bear all by himself for the reasons we discussed. You spoke about how the bear was kinda like an animal totem, or spirit animal, for you. Have you considered presenting it in a Native American style?


I had not considered a Native American styled bear.  While I do have some Cherokee ancestry, it is not a very strong connection (I think my great-great-great grandfather was full-blooded Cherokee), and I’m not really tied to those cultural traditions.  The point I was trying to make with that statement was to emphasize the significance of the bear to me.  It was a good idea, though.

 

 

Also, Denny made the following suggestion, based on the Fitzgibbon crest:

 

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/jonishairy/Heraldry/BakerBadge2-4.gif

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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17 May 2007 10:54
 

Jonathan R. Baker;45010 wrote:

I had not considered a Native American styled bear.  While I do have some Cherokee ancestry, it is not a very strong connection (I think my great-great-great grandfather was full-blooded Cherokee), and I’m not really tied to those cultural traditions.  The point I was trying to make with that statement was to emphasize the significance of the bear to me.  It was a good idea, though.


I think it’s still a decent idea. The Cherokee, apparently, did not do ‘natural’ depictions of things in their traditional artwork. They mostly stuck with geometric forms on flatwork and grotesque masks, etc. in dimensional work. More’s the pity as you live in traditional Cherokee country. Interestingly, the design you’re playing around with hints at the official seal of one of the emerging Cherokee tribelets in your area. Their seal is an erect black bear facing sinister upon a golden seven rayed star all surrounded by a wreath. Not nearly the same, of course, but fascinating that similar elements emerge independently from the same geographic location.

 

I like Denny’s bear, too!

 
Trent
 
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Trent
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17 May 2007 19:12
 

JRB,

Have you considered putting the stars on the bear in a 1-2 pattern?

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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23 May 2007 11:00
 

Okay…It’s been a little while since there was any movement on this thread, but there has been progress on the project.  After a couple of informal polls on the chat room and discussion with my wife, I’ve decided on the following badge for myself.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/jonishairy/Heraldry/Collar.gif

So that finishes my personal version of the achievement.  I still need to work with my grandfather and father on badges and mottoes for them, but it feels good to have reached this point.  Here’s my stab at blazoning:

 

Shield—Vert, thirteen estoiles Argent, on a chief dovetailed Sable fimbriated Or three garbs of the same, banded Vert.

Crest—On a torse Argent, Vert and Or, a bear salient Sable armed, eyed and langued Or, grasping a shepherd’s crook of the same.

Mantling—Vert doubled Argent and Or.

Motto—The Crisis Reveals The Man

Badge—A bear’s head erased Sable eyed and langued Or gorged with estoiles Argent.

 

I’d appreciate a double-checking of that blazon as I’m still not too confident in that area.

 

Thanks,

 

A stand-in until I can get a real rendition:

 

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/jonishairy/Heraldry/BakerDisplay.gif

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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26 May 2007 22:45
 

Okay there have been some more developments, since I last posted here.

First of all, I decided against the use of individual badges/mottoes.  Family solidarity is the whole point of the project.  So, the previous little rendition is chucked for now.  I may keep the bear’s head gorged with estoiles for a personal badge, but for now I will go along with the family’s decisions.

 

Further changes/additions are as follows:

 

1) The bear in the crest will be changed from an heraldic (European) bear to a grizzly bear sable to give the achievement a little more of an American feel.

 

2) Mantling has been changed to be "Vert semy of estoiles Argent, doubled Or."

 

3) We finally worked out a badge that made everyone happy (except for gramps, he has yet to weigh in).  After much haggling and debate over the bears and estoiles and how to color/arrange them, we decided to scrap that whole design.  Starting afresh, I pointed out that we wanted the badge to be simple, elegant, and reminiscent of the shield elements.  We finally decided upon the following design:  "For a badge, a pellet fimbriated Or charged with a garb of the same, banded Vert."

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/jonishairy/Heraldry/BakerBadeFinal.gif

 

So this makes the blazon at this point look something like this:

 

Shield—Vert, thirteen estoiles Argent, on a chief dovetailed Sable, fimbriated Or, three garbs of the same, banded Vert.

Crest—On a torse Or, Vert, and Argent, a grizzly bear salient sable, armed and eyed Or, grasping a shepherd’s crook of the same.

Mantling—Vert semy of estoiles Argent, doubled Or.

Badge—A pellet fimbriated Or, charged with a garb of the same, banded Vert.

 

And finally, Barrie Burr over at the IAAH gave me a pleasant surprise in the form of two new renditions of our sheild:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/jonishairy/Heraldry/Baker2Burr.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/jonishairy/Heraldry/Baker1Burr.jpg

 

Any comments on the blazon or the new badge will be greatly appreciated.

 
Trent
 
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Trent
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26 May 2007 23:01
 

I like the new badge much better any any of the previous ones.  I thought that you might want to take the words "the" out of the motto if they are still in there.

 
Jonathan R. Baker
 
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Jonathan R. Baker
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26 May 2007 23:15
 

That motto has been scrapped as well in favor of a common one for the family.  I’m glad that you like the badge….I do too.

Thanks,

 
DRShorey
 
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DRShorey
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27 May 2007 00:20
 

The badge looks great! The new renditions are quite nice too.

Dave