Donnchadh;45602 wrote:
...might I remind everyone that that great republic of Switzerland has heralds complete with tabards, as does the republics of South Africa and Ireland that we can see in the links that Dave so kindly posted at the beginning of this thread.
Are you sure that the Swiss have heralds? It doesn’t seem like national heralds would jive too well with Swiss thinking. From what I remember, they do very little nationally unless they have to. Do you know if there are any images online anywhere? Their’s would be nice and simple tabards.
Hi Dave. Yes - at least according to my book by Neubecker where he mentions it and where he has pictures of different heralds in modern times including a Swissman (right term?) wearing his sitting down.
Also Dr. McLysaght in his opening for the Lynch-Robinson brothers book on Irish heraldry mentioned that those who think that heraldry and republicanism are incompatible need to remember the Swiss.
Donnchadh;45607 wrote:
Hi Dave. Yes - at least according to my book by Neubecker where he mentions it and where he has pictures of different heralds in modern times including a Swissman (right term?) wearing his sitting down.
I don’t find any pictures of Swiss heralds in Neubecker. Are you talking about the gentleman sitting down on page 40? He is not a herald. As the caption explains, he is a Weibel (similar to a bailiff, usher, or sergeant-at-arms) who maintains order in the cantonal assembly, and he is not wearing a tabard but a floor-length cloak with a badge bearing his arms of office.
Quote:
Also Dr. McLysaght in his opening for the Lynch-Robinson brothers book on Irish heraldry mentioned that those who think that heraldry and republicanism are incompatible need to remember the Swiss.
He was right, but that doesn’t require actual heralds or an official heraldic authority, which Switzerland doesn’t have.
yes that’s it Joe. thanks for the clarification. my mistake. it is there with the heralds of the spanish court standing behind the king and queen of spain and where neubecker talked about heralds.
Yes, and they are wearing brown tabards with the arms of Castille-Leon on an oval estucheon?
I have seen that picture many times.
Now, I have absolutely nothing against tabards, they can be beautiful and are certainly a distinctive mark of our passion. However, any time I hear talk about using them I think of the photos that David Appleton brought back from Scotland last year. Remember the pic of that poor Herald from somewhere - the gentleman of ample proportions whose tabard, made from lightweight material and adorned with some unfortunately placed escutcheons, looked very much like some bizarre form of ladies swimwear?
Should we ever REALLY consider a tabard, please, please, please let’s wait until we can afford to do it right: double velvet (at a minimum) with real metallic embroidery ... a true tabard, not some monstrous abberation of a thong bikini.
Here’s a link: http://www.congress2006.com/Heralds.html
Now, this one is from the official webpage of the 2006 conference and does not show the unfortunate tabard that I wrote about above. It does, however, put old-fashioned, fully embroidered tabards right up against the "new and improved" versions. The differences, at least to me, are obvious. The "new and improved" tabards have the look of having been run up on Mom’s sewing machine for the high school play, particularly in comparison to the heavy embroidered ones.
Yes, I know - my response is picky and probably snobbish, but to my mind, if the AHS were ever to name a herald, I’d want that person to look the part and be able to stand next to Lyon, Norroy or Ulster and be equally grand.
Here’s the ‘bad’ one: http://www.appletonstudios.com/Scotland03.pdf page 2 2nd row from the bottom, on the right.
Oh, dear. Peter Drummond does look rather like he is wearing "under-padding" as he prepares to play a matronly grandmother in an all boys drama production at Eton. Bet he would have been wearing a floral print dress over it to boot. (Mrs. Doubtfire returns home for a visit.)
Your point on quality (design as well as fabric) is well taken, Patrick.
That is Slains Patrick.
I don’t know…aside from Slains unfortunate placement of the escutcheons, which I think has more to do with the non-sturdy nature of the base fabric itself…I think these are nicely embroidered tabards on the whole.
The state herald of the Russian Federations is real beautiful; the close up gives an excellent show of its gold material on deep red.
Finlaggan, not a state herald but of Clan Donald, is also richly made and beautiful.
The Slovak herald has some sort of diapered pattern on his argent cross and blue triple mount, which is also very nice material.
Garrioch & Endure pursuivants, private heralds, are also richly embroidered.
Irelands, while nice, is not as nice as it could be so I think I’ll chalk that one up in the negative column even though it isn’t dreadful per se; I place them along with the Flemish, lack of pop, tabard with the lack of any kind of tabard by the Canadian heralds in the could improve category.
Or it was. I understand Slains has passed away since last year.
The British tabards are extremely nice….very medieval looking to me.
Patrick Williams;45636 wrote:
Or it was. I understand Slains has passed away since last year.
Unless it’s very recent I don’t think so. A former Slains, Michael Maclagan died in 2003 but I believe that Mastrick is still to the fore.
James
Donnchadh;45634 wrote:
Irelands, while nice, is not as nice as it could be so I think I’ll chalk that one up in the negative column even though it isn’t dreadful per se; ...
Owch! If I recall correctly, the Irish tabbard was prepared by the same company in Pakistan that prepared Finlaggan’s tabbard, and was a gift from the Scottish Heraldry Society.
http://www.congress2006.com/StAndrewsIreland.jpg
Garioch & Slains both are Knights of Malta:
http://www.congress2006.com/StAndrewsSlains3.jpg
—Guy
James Dempster;45645 wrote:
Unless it’s very recent I don’t think so. A former Slains, Michael Maclagan died in 2003 but I believe that Mastrick is still to the fore.
James
That’s good, then! Thanks for the correction.
Found what looks like a personal tabard:
http://www.simonknott.co.uk/suffolkchurches/denston400tabard.jpg
source: www.suffolkchurches.co.uk/denston.htm
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...and high above the tabard, helm and sword of a member of the Robinson family….
Though upon closer inspection, it looks like stretched canvas for display, not for wear.
—Guy
