What is the sex of the Madrid bear?
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_11017.shtml
By h.b.
Jun 18, 2007 - 8:17 AM
The Madrid Coat of Arms
The Madrid Coat of Arms has a bear climbing up an orange tree, and the Mayor wants to know the sex of the bear
A controversy has broken out over the sex of the Coat of Arms for the City of Madrid. The Coat of Arms consists of a bear looking up an orange tree.
The Director of the Matirtense Heraldic and Geneology Royal Academy, Faustino Menéndez Pidal de Navascués, told El Mundo that that they are not veterinarians, and therefore cannot decide the sex of the bear.
His comments came after the Mayor of the City, Alberto Ruiz-Gallardón, asked him to rule on the question. He did admit however that the tradition in the 16th century was to describe the beast as Osa, making it feminine, but there was no formal evidence.
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/spain/uploads/1/madridcoatofarms.jpg
It is good to note the mayor has a firm grasp of heraldry. Pu-lease…
WBHenry;46419 wrote:
It is good to note the mayor has a firm grasp of heraldry. Pu-lease…
Hey I am sure the mayor of the town elected him to ask these very tough, but important, questions.:rolleyes:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=29&art_id=nw20070617220810455C448065
Above is a longer article. Here is a quote…
Quote:
"They’ve often hidden the feminine side of things down the years," Carracedo insisted, basing her argument on an ecclesiastical amendment to 13th Century heraldic literature where "osa", the Spanish for a female bear, morphed into "oso", the masculine equivalent.
...
Intrepid reporters from Spanish television took to the streets to ask bystanders if they were convinced by the arguments of "revisionists" such as Carrecedo.
"Of course it is," argued one woman in her 70s. "Look carefully. You can see it doesn’t have a ‘thingy’!"
Perhaps we should inquire of our resident bear expert. Hey, Jonathan, is the demi-bear in your crest male, female, or androgynous? Or perhaps an hermaphrodite? And what does it mean when a bear looks up an orange tree? Inquiring minds want to know. And since the woman above makes a "valid" point, should a male bear be blazoned "a bear in his glory" so as to avoid confusion among revisionist mayors?
Let us all pause for a moment of silence, giving thanks that things are running so smoothly in Madrid the mayor and council actually have time to debate these things.
WBHenry;46423 wrote:
when a bear looks up an orange tree? Inquiring minds want to know.
I think it is a strawberry tree…
all animals are male in heraldry unless you specify it, and then there is the exception in British heraldry the griffin and the male griffin 
emrys;46439 wrote:
all animals are male in heraldry unless you specify it, and then there is the exception in British heraldry the griffin and the male griffin
The badly-misnamed "male griffin" is actually a different beast than a griffin, since a griffin is frequently depicted with male equipment.
I agree it is mis named it should have had another name fire griffin or pepper griffin because it is hot with the flames
Mr. Baker is no veterinarian either, and his bear has expressed no sexual preference, and Mr. Baker is not so forward as to inquire about the subject.
emrys;46446 wrote:
I agree it is mis named it should have had another name fire griffin or pepper griffin because it is hot with the flames
They’re not so much flames as spikes or rays (although pyrogriff has a nice ring to it).
Various alternate names have been discussed in Dragonlore, including "keythong" (proposed by Sir Colin Cole- Garter at one point, IIRC), based on the idea that the first drawing of such a creature was labelled as such (which had been misread as "gryphthong" or gryphon). It has also been suggested that this term actually referred to a particular knotted badge, rather than the beasts on the same page.
The various heraldic authorities have, of course, pointedly ignored such suggestions, consistently using the misnomer whenver possible (case in point- a demi-male griffin was granted as a crest to Melfort, Saskatchewan. The French blazon refers to it as a "wingless griffon", which is also wrong, because it has spikes!).
i dont understand the bid geal. if it is blazoned as osa it is female, if it is blazoned oso it is male. so why the big fuss? i dont understand.
Well here in Sweden the CoA of the Customs was redesigned so that the private parts of the Lion was made less predominate. So the sex of heraldic animals can be a rather tuchy subject.
in the Netherlands there was such a case to, in this case the artist had drawn the griffin supporters like he always did but the community council found the private parts to big so he had to draw them smaller. This all came about because this was a new community formed and one of the former communities had had these griffin supporters but these were done more modest the old one
I don’t think the mayor is being revisionist at all. The bear is indeed historically referred to as a she-bear (osa). And I personally think it’s great that madrileños and madrileñas take their heraldry so seriously.
From Flags of the World:
Quote:
The bear (actually a female bear) is most probably the element which appeared first on Madrid’s coat-of-arms, representing the abundance of bears in the area. The strawberry tree was added later, representing the many woods in the area, particularly strawberry trees, to establish a difference between the church and the city, though I cannot recall that point clearly now. The blue bordure with seven silver stars was added yet later as a further reference to the bear — the stars representing those of the Ursa Maior or Great Bear constellation.
It should be noted that the bear and strawberry tree sculpture in central Madrid (at Puerta del Sol square) is simply a modern representation of an ancient coat-of-arms, and not the other way round.
According to this webpage of the Madrid City Council website (whose Spanish version is available here):
<div class=“bbcode_indent” >
The 13th Century. The Council or City Community and Villages within the city walls, were given a Municipal Charter in 1202 during the reign of Alfonso VIII of Castille, enabling them to make use of the land and woodland of Madrid up to part of the Sierra. That same year a dispute began between the city and the city council about the possession of pastures, land, trees and hunting in certain woodland. It was settled in 1222 with both parties agreeing that the church should keep the pastureland and the council the trees. To ratify this agreement, the Council adopted a shield with a climbing bear, and the Clergy a she-bear walking (despite the fact the previous emblem of the city, worn by Madrid’s militia in the battle of Navas de Tolosa, showed the she-bear walking and apparently the seven stars of the Ursa Minor on its loin). The name of "city of the Bear and the Strawberry Tree", owing to the abundance of both in the surrounding woodland, dates back to the XIII century. Although in the different manuscripts it is a she-bear and not a male bear.
</div>
This paragraph matches very much something I read long ago on a booklet published —or at least sold— by the Madrid City Council, so it looks quite reliable indeed.
Santiago Dotor, 27 June 2001
The strawberry tree [Spanish madroño] is in fact an Arbutus. According to this website:
<div class=“bbcode_indent” >
Small tree of between 1 and 5 m in height, often found in bush form, with sparse branches. Its enduring, hard, shiny leaves have slightly dentate margins and are wider at the distal end than near the stalk. Bunches of white, cup-shaped flowers appear between October and January, which hang downwards from the extremities of the branches. The arbutus berries develop from these flowers. These berries are round, granular and ripen when the tree flowers the following year, turning bright red. Here [i.e. in Spain], the strawberry tree is found in the holm oak and cork oak forests of the lower mountains and flat country. Its fruit constitutes an important food source for forest animals during the winter.
</div>
Rob Raeside, 27 June 2001
Madalch;46440 wrote:
The badly-misnamed "male griffin" is actually a different beast than a griffin, since a griffin is frequently depicted with male equipment.
Yes, but one questions whether this is properly so if a "male griffin" is distinguished. However, the male griffin appears to be of a different species technically called a kethong…
