Grand Lodge of Indiana

 
Marcus K
 
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Marcus K
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17 July 2007 09:40
 

http://www.indianafreemasons.com/imoimage/inglcoatc.jpg

From the Grand Lodge’s site http://www.indianafreemasons.com/

 

Lower left, St. Andrew’s cross, from the Arms of the Grand Lodge of Scotland

Lower right, the effulgent sun, from the seal of the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania;

Upper left, Indian and star, from the seal of the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts;

Upper right, beehive, plumb, gauge and level, from the seal of the Grand Lodge of Virginia.

 

These symbolises the origins of Freemasonry in Indiana.

 
Michael Swanson
 
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Michael Swanson
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17 July 2007 10:03
 

This has a couple of tincture contrast issues.  Any one care to blazon this, or is this non-heraldic?

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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17 July 2007 10:48
 

AAAAAGGGGGHHHH!

No, I wouldn’t care to blazon it. I would classify this as REALLY bad heraldry, if not non-heraldic.

 

You neglected to mention that the dexter portion of the shield, with which the rest is impaled is based on (tincture variations) the arms of the ‘Moderns’, the first Grand Lodge in England. Unfortunately, whoever did their work didn’t realize that as they claim "On the left, three castles and a chevron, on the latter of which is an open compass. These are derived from the Arms of the United Grand Lodge of England, all taken, with some amount of adaptation, from the original Arms of the London Company of Freemasons in 1472." Of course this isn’t on the left, it’s on the right and if derived from the UGLE, then they forgot a very important part (the entire sinister half of the shield). They are saying here (although they don’t know it) that they derive from the first GL in England, the ‘Moderns’, which is only sort of technically true. The Provincial GL of Massachusetts, upon whose charter all regular American Freemasonry is based was formed under their authority, the UGLE didn’t form until 1813. So, once again, the inclusion of the dexter impalement is historically accurate to a point, but they really have no idea why. And, of course, it sort of indicates that they are under the authority of the Grand Lodge of England, which (a) no longer exists and (b) hasn’t been the case since the colonies declared independence and the GLofE disaffiliated all colonial lodges in North America. (edit: this last bit should read "disaffiliated all lodges in the thirteen colonies", they have never disaffiliated Canada, which is also in North America).

 

Of course, there are more problems: The quartering with St.Andrew’s cross ... although now that it’s a red cross on a blue field, so it’s no longer St. Andy’s ... all Grand Lodges in regular communication with one another in this country trace their charter back to the original North American Provincial Grand Lodge in Massachusetts established well before the Revolutionary War. Including the Grand Lodge of Scotland in their arms is, well, incorrect and presumptuous. It says something about GL Indiana that just isn’t true: no Grand Lodge in the US (excepting Carolina, Louisiana and Georgia) has ever had those kinds of ties to the GL of Scotland and none do today. The references to Pennsylvania and Virginia are less offensive as they were some of the first Grand Lodges chartered by the Massachusetts Provincial Grand Lodge on this continent and can be considered an historical nod to the formation of Freemasonry in this country, but only the nod to Massachusetts really makes any sense.

 

And the fruit salad in the bordure? Puh-leeze.

 

Anyhow, I wish I knew how old this achievement is. The Grand Lodge of Indiana site really doesn’t say, but if it’s current, I might contact them regarding the terrors. Yes, terrors, this far surpasses errata.

 
Michael Swanson
 
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Michael Swanson
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17 July 2007 11:01
 

Patrick Williams;47484 wrote:

AAAAAGGGGGHHHH!

...

Anyhow, I wish I knew how old this achievement is. The Grand Lodge of Indiana site really doesn’t say, but if it’s current, I might contact them regarding the terrors. Yes, terrors, this far surpasses errata.


Please post your letter to them here if you write it.  I hope you will write one.

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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17 July 2007 11:25
 

Michael, I may write that letter, however I’ll take a few days to think about it. If I wrote it right now I might be a bit ... harsh.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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17 July 2007 12:30
 

Quote:

And the fruit salad in the bordure?

ROFL!!! :D

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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17 July 2007 12:58
 

Help me out here, friends ... too much? too little? too presumptuous?

 

MW Brethren;

 

I was recently guided to your website to look at your new Grand Lodge Heraldic Insignia and am writing you from a genuine concern about the reputation of the Grand Lodge of Indiana. As an amateur heraldist and member of the American Heraldry Society, I was at first excited at the prospect of seeing another armigerous Masonic organization in the United States (I recently convinced my lodge to assume arms). Unfortunately, I must inform you that your design is not heraldic at all as it violates too many of the rules of heraldry, would be unacceptable to any heraldic authority or registry anywhere in the world, and exposes the Grand Lodge of Indiana to the ridicule of the worldwide heraldic community.

 

I suppose I should begin with a few of the rules as understanding them is necessary in this discussion. Heraldry has two metals (represented by yellow for gold and white for silver), a few colors and some designs called ‘furs’. The most basic rule of heraldry is that color-on-color, metal-on-metal, or fur-on-fur are not allowed. How you divide a shield and what you might choose to place in those divisions can ‘say something’ about you. Finally, for our discussion, shields are always described from the point of view of the armored knight who would be carrying it. The left side as we look at it is actually the right, or dexter side. The other is called the sinister (or left) side.

 

You have chosen ‘impaled’ arms. Impalement is simply showing one coat of arms on the dexter side and another on the sinister. Most usually, impalement of arms happens only in limited circumstances. When two armigers (people who have coats of arms) marry, the husband’s arms will be displayed on the dexter and the wife’s on the sinister. Within the Catholic Church it is common for abbots, bishops, cardinals and the like to display their personal arms on the sinister and the arms of their church on the dexter. You have chosen to impale the arms of the Grand Lodge of England (not the United Grand Lodge, but the old ‘moderns’ with a few changes) on the dexter side. This says to all that your Grand Lodge is subject to the authority of another Grand Lodge (and to one who ceased to be in existence in 1813). Additionally, the placement of black compasses on a blue chevron violates the color-on-color rule.

 

On the sinister side of your shield, there are other color-on-color problems, as well as an insult that I’m sure was unintentional. When you changed St. Andrew’s cross from withe on a blue background (a metal on a color) to red on a blue background, you not only caused a color-on-color problem. To call this area a nod to the Grand Lodge of Scotland will not only be offensive to them, but people of Scottish ancestry everywhere will be insulted. St. Andrew’s cross is Scotland’s sacred symbol, but it is always white on a blue background. While some of our Southern States may have some links to Scottish Rite Masonry, that is really of French origin and, to my knowledge, no Grand Lodge in the United States has had the kind of relationship with the Grand Lodge of Scotland that would make placing a part of their armorial bearings on a shield appropriate. That indicates a fealty to them that does not exist, and currently, as you have it, slaps them in the face.

 

All regular craft lodges in the United States trace their charters back to the original Provincial Grand Lodge charter of Massachusetts. I would assume that the Grand Lodge of Indiana is part of that great historical chain. And while parts of Indiana may have, at one time, been subject to the Grand Lodges of Pennsylvania and/or Virginia, the claim that the sinister portion of your shield makes is that GL Indiana is something less today than the sole Masonic authority of the jurisdiction.

 

The purpose of heraldry is to identify oneself (or one’s organization) as an individual, or the heir of an individual. Your design, while interesting, attempts to tell the story of Freemasonry in America and unfortunately fails to do that adequately and says some things about the Grand Lodge of Indiana that are inaccurate at best. I would respectfully suggest that you cease referring to it as a coat of arms, heraldic insignia or armorial bearings, as it is none of these.

 

Sincerely and Fraternally,

 
Marcus K
 
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Marcus K
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17 July 2007 17:19
 

I agree that the "arms" are not good heraldry.

Some input as regarding your letter Patrick:

 

You have written that you are a member of the American Heraldry Association, but surely you mean American Heraldry Society? And about the St. Andrew’s Cross it is silver cross on blue background, not the other way around.

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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17 July 2007 18:08
 

Thanks, you’re right on both counts! I’ll be sure to make those changes.

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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17 July 2007 18:20
 

Dear Patrick,

Your letter above to your fellow Freemasons in Indiana is very heavy in facts. I think it stands a great chance of being discarded unless directed to the correct person. It might be best to telephone their headquarters first and find a contact to whom such a letter would be best directed. After all you do not want to see your efforts go to naught.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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17 July 2007 19:52
 

Patrick Williams;47498 wrote:

Help me out here, friends ... too much? too little? too presumptuous?


At the risk of being presumptuous myself, may I offer what might be a more palatable version?

 

 

MW Brethren;

 

I was recently guided to your website to look at your new Grand Lodge Heraldic Insignia. As an amateur heraldist and member of the American Heraldry Society, I was excited at the prospect of seeing another armigerous Masonic organization in the United States (I recently convinced my lodge to assume arms).

 

Unfortunately, while your design is highly evocative of the history of your Grand Lodge, I must say that from the heraldic point of view the design leaves a great deal to be desired.

 

While not ideal from a strictly heraldic point of view, the basic format of the arms is well within the mainstream of Masonic heraldry in the English-speaking world. To be specific, you have chosen ‘impaled’ arms. Impalement is simply showing one coat of arms on the dexter side (the right side as seen from behind the shield) and another on the sinister (or left side). For the dexter half, you have chosen to impale a version of the arms of the old Grand Lodge of England (not the United Grand Lodge, but the pre-1813 ‘moderns’ in different colors) on the dexter side. This is consistent with the armorial practices of other American grand lodges, such as Massachusetts, and the change of colors from the original English version is a good way of expressing a historical connection without implying a current subordination. The only real problem is the fact that the compass on the blue chevron is black. As a result, it would be practically invisible if an artist in the future renders the chevron in a slightly darker blue. It is for this reason that the key rule of heraldry holds that a "colored" object (one that is black, red, green, blue, or purple) must be placed on a "metal" field (one that is gold/yellow or silver/white) and vice versa. If you would simply change the compass to silver instead of black, I think there would be no serious problem with the dexter half of the shield.

 

The real issue with your coat of arms, from a heraldic point of view, is with the sinister side. In addition to several occurrences of color-on-color and metal-on-metal, which in themselves could easily be remedied, I think the main problem is that your design tries to say too much but succeeds in saying too little.

 

For example, your use of the St. Andrew’s cross of Scotland (incorrectly shown in red rather than white) is a clear reference to Scottish Rite Masonry, but as a matter of historical fact, no Grand Lodge in the United States has had the kind of relationship with the Grand Lodge of Scotland that would make placing a part of the Scottish Grand Lodge’s armorial bearings on a shield appropriate.

 

The other three quarters of the sinister side derive from the seals of the Grand Lodges of other states: Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Virginia. The problem is that the use of these emblems says nothing unique about Indiana. All regular craft lodges in the United States trace their charters back to the original Provincial Grand Lodge charter of Massachusetts. I would assume that the Grand Lodge of Indiana is part of that great historical chain, but so are the Grand Lodges of virtually every other state. And while parts of Indiana may have, at one time, been subject to the Grand Lodges of Pennsylvania and/or Virginia, the statement that the sinister portion of your shield makes is that the Grand Lodge of Indiana is something less today than the sole and independent Masonic authority of the jurisdiction.

 

The purpose of heraldry is to identify oneself (or one’s organization) as a unique individual or entity. Your present design, while interesting, attempts to tell the entire story of Freemasonry in America but unfortunately fails to say anything about the Grand Lodge of Indiana in particular. I would respectfully suggest that a better approach would be to fill the dexter half of the shield with an emblem or emblems expressive of Indiana: perhaps the bison jumping over the fallen log that appears in the Indiana state seal, in gold or silver on a red background. If it is desired to unify the entire design with a bordure (or border) around the edge of the whole shield, this might be white (silver) with a small number of red peonies—typically eight—the Indiana state flower—rather than the complex and unheraldic pattern of holly vines in green on black that you currently use.

 

If you are interested, I would be delighted to bring together a group of heraldic designers of my acquaintance to serve as a committee of experts in developing a complete redesign of your arms. As both a Mason and a heraldist, I am delighted that the Grand Lodge of Indiana has chosen to follow the heraldic tradition. I hope you will understand that I offer these criticisms and suggestions in the spirit of making the Indiana Grand Lodge’s coat of arms a standard to which others can aspire.

 

Sincerely and Fraternally,

 

 

Or something along those lines. Offering constructive ideas will get you further than trashing the current effort.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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17 July 2007 19:59
 

i would second David’s idea and encourage Joe’s rendition, as it is more constructive.

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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18 July 2007 09:00
 

Joseph, thank you very much. This is precisely the reason I posted the draft, you’re not being presumptuous in the least. I couldn’t stop thinking about it (even though I promised to wait a few days before writing) and I knew that my letter was unduly harsh. This is a great alternative and you may be sure that it will be the basis, if not the whole, of my final letter. I had avoided the final paragraph because the AHS’s purpose is not to be a design firm, although we’ve all used it as such, and I did not wish to presume that you, my friends here, would be willing to undertake or interested in such a task.

David, you can be sure I will send this letter to the appropriate place. As they state on their website, the design itself was created by the Grand Secretary, but adopted by edict of the Grand Master, the highest Masonic authority in Indiana. Only the Grand Master (or a subsequent one - you’re only GM in Masonry for a year, after all) may reverse or alter the edict. So ... it will be posted to the Grand Master’s eyes only. What happens to it from there is his business alone.

 

Thanks all for your input and keep it coming if you have any ideas.

 
PBlanton
 
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PBlanton
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19 July 2007 20:37
 

I like the presumptuous Education Director’s letter. :razz: As the old addage claims: "It’s easier to attract flies with honey than vinegar."

Patrick, good luck on this endeavor and good on you for trying to improve the "heraldry-like-objects" around you! :D

 

Take care,

 
 
ninest123
 
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29 June 2017 21:42
 

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