News from the TIOH

 
Marcus K
 
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Marcus K
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25 August 2007 06:19
 

Two recently added arms to the TIOH site:

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Graphics/STB27InfantryBCTCOA.jpg

Special Troops Battalion, 27th Infantry Brigade Combat Team. Approved on 24 August 2007. The Motto is Versatile.

 

"Symbolism:

 

Shield: Red denotes determination.  Orange alludes to ambition.  Light blue suggests constancy.  The horse symbolizes readiness for all service, indicating the steadfast supporting nature of the battalion.  Dark blue is the color traditionally associated with Infantry units.  The blanket displays the companies that form the Battalion:  the lightning bolt refers to the Signal capabilities; the key implies the security of Military Intelligence; and the tower refers to the Engineer responsibilities.  The three six point stars are adapted from the Coat of Arms of the French explorer Sieur de la LaSalle and signify the Battalion’s linkage to its predecessor, the 152d Engineer Battalion.  The stars also represent the ties between the 152d and the city of Buffalo, New York, the home station of the battalion.

 

Crest: The crest is that of the New York Army National Guard. "

 
Marcus K
 
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Marcus K
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25 August 2007 06:23
 

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Graphics/188SupportBnCOA.jpg

188th Support Battalion, approved 23 August 2007. The Motto is Laboriferum Garvis = Bearing The Heavy Burden.

"Symbolism:

 

Shield: Red is the color traditionally associated with Support units.  The chevron indicates support/to bear; the raguly denotes difficulties that are encountered; the items combined alluding to the motto “Bearing The Heavy Burden.”  The oak tree symbolizes direct support provided by the Battalion.

 

Crest: The key alludes to the Battalion’s origin in the Quartermaster Corps and currently as the safe keeper and dispenser of military equipment.  The firebomb denotes the unit’s lineage as an Ordnance unit.  The wrench, red disk and star signify the unit’s campaign participation in Vietnam as a Maintenance Battalion."

 
DRShorey
 
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DRShorey
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25 August 2007 09:41
 

Howdy,

Here is a recent article about the IOH.

 

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=46826

 

Dave Shorey

 
Kelisli
 
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Kelisli
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25 August 2007 09:50
 

Dave,

Have we approached any of employees of the IOH to see if they want to join our society?  I wonder if some of them have personal arms?

 
DRShorey
 
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DRShorey
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25 August 2007 10:02
 

Howdy Hassan,

There are some efforts being started to begin conversations. We certainly don’t want to waste Mr. Mugno’s or his staff’s time and prior to any formal or even informal approach we need to have a better sense of what our interaction might be.

 

Dave

 
gselvester
 
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gselvester
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25 August 2007 13:23
 

I heartily support the idea of some kind of overture being made to them. This could be mutually beneficial. I also think that, without trying to tell them their job, we could potentially influence things in a positive way. For example, in the article this sentence stuck out to me:

"The Institute of Heraldry also is responsible for creating the blue, oval-shaped logos displayed behind the lecterns in the White House and Pentagon briefing rooms."

 

There it is right there: heraldry and logos go together. That’s a dangerous idea. Also, I note that while TIOH is proud of what they do and considers themselves the nation’s experts on heraldry so much of what they turn out is appallingly bad from a heraldic viewpoint. Perhaps we could influence that in a positive fashion as well.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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25 August 2007 15:10
 

Keep in mind that TIOH doesn’t only do design work, it also is in charge of manufacturing emblems used by the federal government.  I doubt that we can blame them for the decision to use pictures of buildings on the White House and other logos; in fact, I recall that that whole trend began with a decision by the White House press office some years ago.  But once the White House decide to use a picture of the building as a logo, it’s TIOH’s job to do the artwork and supervise the manufacturing to implement the decision.

I once found in the TIOH archives a series of correspondence on the design of the seal for the Department of Housing and Urban Development in the 1960s.  TIOH had come up an impeccably heraldic (if somewhat unimaginative) design, but HUD decided it wanted something more "modern" and had contracted with a commercial logo design firm.

 

http://www.fotw.net/images/u/us_hud.gif

HUD then had the nerve to write to TIOH asking it to draft the official legal description of this design; to his credit, the director replied to the effect:  "Happy to; first tell me what it’s supposed to be."

 

But after all the to and fro, TIOH still had to prepare the manufacturing drawings, etc., for the plaques, flags, etc., depicting this quintessentially unheraldic device.

 
Stephen R. Hickman
 
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Stephen R. Hickman
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26 August 2007 01:28
 

DRShorey;48860 wrote:

Howdy Hassan,

There are some efforts being started to begin conversations. We certainly don’t want to waste Mr. Mugno’s or his staff’s time and prior to any formal or even informal approach we need to have a better sense of what our interaction might be.

 

Dave


Why not simply invite those at TIOH to visit our website?  It’s not much, but it’s a start.

 
DRShorey
 
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DRShorey
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26 August 2007 20:22
 

The staff of IOH is aware of AHS and I am sure that many have visited our website and forum. The discussions are about forming a meaningful relationship beyond that.

Dave

 
Daniel C. Boyer
 
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Daniel C. Boyer
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27 August 2007 16:12
 

Marcus K;48856 wrote:

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Graphics/188SupportBnCOA.jpg

188th Support Battalion, approved 23 August 2007. The Motto is Laboriferum Garvis = Bearing The Heavy Burden.

"Symbolism:

 

Shield: Red is the color traditionally associated with Support units.  The chevron indicates support/to bear; the raguly denotes difficulties that are encountered; the items combined alluding to the motto “Bearing The Heavy Burden.”  The oak tree symbolizes direct support provided by the Battalion.

 

Crest: The key alludes to the Battalion’s origin in the Quartermaster Corps and currently as the safe keeper and dispenser of military equipment.  The firebomb denotes the unit’s lineage as an Ordnance unit.  The wrench, red disk and star signify the unit’s campaign participation in Vietnam as a Maintenance Battalion."


Shouldn’t the raguly be on both the top and bottom?  It’s not embattled.

 
Marcus K
 
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Marcus K
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28 August 2007 12:10
 

Daniel C. Boyer;48903 wrote:

Shouldn’t the raguly be on both the top and bottom?  It’s not embattled.


Yes indeed a chevron raguly should look likes this. Picture from the Heraldic Dictionary on the Library of the University of Notre Dame site http://www.library.nd.edu/

 

http://www.library.nd.edu/rarebooks/digital_projects/heraldry/charges/images/ordinaries/chevron_raguly.gif

 
Madalch
 
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Madalch
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29 August 2007 13:13
 

Daniel C. Boyer;48903 wrote:

Shouldn’t the raguly be on both the top and bottom?  It’s not embattled.

I don’t see an actual blazon being quoted- if it’s blazoned as a chevron raguly, then you are correct.  It could, however, be blazoned as "a chevron, its upper edge raguly", and that would be fine.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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29 August 2007 17:21
 

Madalch;48934 wrote:

I don’t see an actual blazon being quoted- if it’s blazoned as a chevron raguly, then you are correct. It could, however, be blazoned as "a chevron, its upper edge raguly", and that would be fine.


In fact, on the TIOH site, is indeed given as "Per chevron Gules and Or, a chevron raguly Sable edged of the second, in base an oak tree Proper."

 

I do think one area in which we could be helpful to TIOH would be in helping with the review of blazons before they are approved.

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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29 August 2007 19:44
 

I agree. Joe, what would you call this particularly strange chevron?

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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29 August 2007 21:48
 

I think Darren got it right:  "a chevron, its upper edge raguly," or maybe "a chevron raguly on the upper edge."

 
Daniel C. Boyer
 
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Daniel C. Boyer
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30 August 2007 13:02
 

Joseph McMillan;48939 wrote:

In fact, on the TIOH site, is indeed given as "Per chevron Gules and Or, a chevron raguly Sable edged of the second, in base an oak tree Proper."

I do think one area in which we could be helpful to TIOH would be in helping with the review of blazons before they are approved.


Yes; apologies for failure to cite properly if anyone was confused.