Scottish and American arms for MacLea

 
Linusboarder
 
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Linusboarder
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19 November 2007 22:26
Dohrman Byers
 
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Dohrman Byers
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21 November 2007 16:08
 

Kyle—

While you’re busy with necessary affairs, I’ve revisted ideas for your arms in the West Highland quartered style. I’ve got a few (more) suggestions.

 

First, you could keep the Chief’s arms in the first three quarters, and do all the differencing in the fourth. The device I like best to do this is the New England pine tree eradicated. I have some reservations in suggesting this, because Farquharson uses a pine tree. Theirs, however, is rooted in a grassy mount in base and shown proper on a field argent. I’m hoping that a pine tree eradicated vert on a field or is sufficiently differenced not to create any problems.

 

With that caveat, I suggest that the fourth quarter of arms of the senior branch of the family (your father/brother/nephew) might be: Or a Pine Tree eradicated Vert the trunk surmounted by a Salmon naiant holding a gemmed ring in its mouth proper. This keeps the ancient token of the salmon from the Chief’s arms, but loses the bars wavy azure. Visually, this quarter resembles the arms of Glasgow, but does not duplicate them. (In Glasgow, the salmon is swimming upside down past an oak tree rooted in a grassy mount—not rightside up past a pine tree eradicated.)

 

After keeping the archaic, arcane charge of the salmon for the senior line of the New England MacLeas, I suggest for yourself that you drop the salmon and recall two of the Chief’s bars wavy azure—still with the pine tree. Here is how the senior and cadet arms might look:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/151/macleafamilyfd9.th.png

 

Here are some ideas as to how one might difference arms for American MacLea cousins:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/670/macleacousinslc8.th.png

 

As for your half-brother, I’d suggest something more Iberic. In the attached example, the connection to your family is expressed in the pine trees eradicated vert on a field or. Here, however, the trees are multiplied into a forest for "Silvia." Your mother’s French Canadian ancestry is represented by the bordure azure charged with fleurs de lis argent.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4428/macleasilviaty3.th.png

 

Now I’ll take a break too. Happy Thanksgiving!

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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21 November 2007 19:08
 

The concern with the cross-crosslet in the same field as the lion is just that—if they share the same field with the cross thingee in dexter chief, they arms say (or at least whisper) "Keppoch."  Too bad, but that’s life in the Highlands…

The hilly thingee in the base of the field containing the red lion is IMO nice, & Kyle seemed to like it, so IMO that’s a keeper—it doesn’t suggest any other Scottish surname, & unless its green & the field is changed to red or blue, it doesn’t suggest Hungarian either.  Its possible that it might run close to something else on the continent, but not too closely by the time we add in at least some of the other necessary goodies—in this case, the red hand & blue cross-crosslet which are pretty distinctively "MacLea/Livingstone" in those colors anyway, and IMO hopefully the fish holding the ring in its mouth which has for Kyle the double allusion to Glasgow & jeweler.  Oh yea, there’s that swallow he likes too…

 

OK, here’s the nub.  We have too many thingees to crowd into one field, so if we want a single unitary shield (one field) then something, or several somethings, have to go; but not so many as to lose the desired allusions or become just one more, more or less anonymous, red lion…  Not that its a lost cause, just a puzzlement.

 

On the other hand—and I know not everyone agrees—the simple expedient of a West Highland quartering just doesn’t work well outside of that part of Scotland, & particularly here where the neighbors—and even the in-laws—are as likely to be English or Polish or whatever non-West-Highland flavor of Heinz 57 happens to apply in your part of the melting pot.  Without "something" to unify the quarters, it is (or will be seen as) a visual statement to friends and relatives that each quarter represents a separate family line united through a series of marriages to heraldic heiresses.  Not your intent, but who can blame them?

 

After some thought (judge quality for yourself) I’d like to suggest a fairly simple expedient that came to mind looking at the arms of a Canadian McDonald and one of the Shaw cadets on the HSS site.  Both start with typical West Highland quartered coats with the appropriate totems for their surnames.  The Canadian McD has a simple blue cross overall, & the Shaw cadet has a roundel charged with a maternal emblem (a Robertson wolf’s head IIRC), overall at the junction of the four quarters.

 

I can’t recall the blazoning term, but there’s an heraldic cross which is essentially a roundel with the four arms protruding.  (A cross nowy?—whatever…)  Anyway, slap that fairly simple cross "throughout" - pick a color - over the quarterly partition lines, add a silver or gold swallow volant on the fat round part of the cross (which reduces the crowding in the four quarters), insert the hilly thingee under the lion’s feet and give the fish his ring, and you’re in business. Its not as elegantly simple as a single field, but it does say "MacLea" (or Livingstone) with IMO a minimal amount of extra "stuff."

 

Anyway, give it some thought…(the door of your fridge must look like the notice board at the local market by now!)

 
James Dempster
 
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22 November 2007 01:26
 

Mike has raised the very good point that in a non-Scottish context the "West Highland" coat can look like inherited quarters. Given that Kyle’s surname is typically West Highland - MacLea - I don’t see it as a huge problem. Adding a charge to the field to unify the quarters isn’t neccessary as a simple "quarterly indented" does the job quite well especially if the fields are the same 1&4 and 2&3. The arms of Alexander Canaday MacLeod on the HSS website are an example of this.

There is also a way round it which is reasonably common in Scottish "West Highland" heraldry and this is to marshall three components on a single field, on a field per fess or on a field per fess and in chief per pale. An example that can be seen online is that of Hector Sutherland Macdonald on the HSS website. His arms are:

 

Arms: Or, dexter a hand in armour couped fessways Proper holding a cross crosslet fitchée Gules, sinster an eagle displayed Gules surmounted of a lymphad, sails furled, oars in action Sable and in base a lotus flower Proper

 

Crest: the head of the Indian (Hindu) God Ganesha couped affrontée Proper.

 

Motto: VITA EADEM STUDIA

 

If you have access to the latest BLG then the arms of the Macleans of Dochgarroch and their cadets the Macleans of Westfield have a similar form of marshalling.

 

Dochgarroch:Per fess Or and Azure in dexter chief a dexter hand appaume Gules and in sinister chief a galley sails furled oars in saltire Sable and in base a castle triple-towered Argent masoned of the the fourth windows and portcullis of the third.

 

Westfield: As Dochgarroch within a bordure Or.

 

For Kyle I would suggest

 

Per fess Or and in chief per pale Or and Argent in dexter chief a lion rampant Gules in sinister chief a dexter hand couped at the wrist Gules, holding a cross crosslet fitchée Azure in base on a triple mount Vert a New England Pine proper.

 

This would also work Per chevron and in chief per pale.

 

Another possibility is

 

Per fess Or and in chief per pale Or and Argent in dexter chief a lion rampant Gules in sinister chief a dexter hand couped at the wrist Gules, holding a cross crosslet fitchée Azure in base a sparrowhawk volant affrontee

 

the description of the sparrowhawk might not be quite correct blazon but in such a depiction it fits the space better than volant to the dexter and I think looks more like a bird of prey - see the falcon in the crest of the Earls of Errol for what I mean.

 

Personally I’d go for the pine and use the sparrowhawk in the crest.

 

James

 
Dohrman Byers
 
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22 November 2007 11:47
 

I don’t see the fact that some people in the US would mistake quartered West Highland arms for marital marshalings as a problem. It may even be a plus. In the US, one should be prepared to encounter all manner of heraldic usage, and not make too many assumptions. I’ve enjoyed participating in this discussion, because I’m learning about the West Highland tradition. Normally, I would not design arms in this style. It reminds me too much of the dreadful coats of arms of so many American schools, in which a shield is quartered and some trite symbol stuck in each section. The West Highland is, however, an authentic and venerable regional heraldic tradition. For anyone with a legitimate claim to that tradition, I’d say, "Do it—and don’t worry about the ignorance of others."

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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23 November 2007 23:21
 

I can understand Fr. Dohrman’s argument, but he includes as a passing thought what (to me anyway) is another major objection—that saying this sort of quarterly new design is OK here because it was OK in one small area in one particular old country, essentially weakens the argument against the "quarterly four versions of the kitchen sink" approach in far too many home-made American coats of arms.  We should IMO try to set the example; & since there are simple expedients (including Alex’s suggestions, which I admit flat skipped my mind) which alow one to adopt essentially one or the other version of the West Highland pattern without the flock-of-heiresses connotation, we can do so without slighting the old-country allusion.

 
Kyle MacLea
 
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24 November 2007 21:45
 

Wow, some good suggestions knocked around so far in just a few days!

I’ll say right off that I don’t much care for backgrounds that are too busy, such as erminois, etc.  Fine for other people, I just don’t really want one for me!

 

In looking over the quarterly designs and taking people’s comments to mind, I can definitely see somewhat that West Highland arms can be of the "lucky charms" variety when out of context.  While I don’t think this is a fatal flaw to a design in that fashion for me, after a lot of looking at what people have sent along so far, it seems pretty clear to me that I need more than 1 quarter to difference from the Chief.  And none of the differences so far have been very pleasing to me, and as Mike has inferred, has just made it busier.

 

I think it’s getting TOO busy…

 

Let me take a step back here.

 

Looking at James’ suggestions, I can see that they make a lot of sense.  Cutting from four symbols/parts to three cuts out any heraldic heiress business, reduces the lucky charms effect, and also remains within the West Highland context better than a parting per-saltire.  I like this.

 

I also really like his suggestion of Per fess Or and in chief per pale Or and Argent in dexter chief a lion rampant Gules in sinister chief a dexter hand couped at the wrist Gules, holding a cross crosslet fitchée Azure in base on a triple mount Vert a New England Pine proper.

 

I’d love to see it blazoned!

 

I’m thinking giving up on the sparrowhawk is fine, perhaps it would make something good for the crest.  It would be good to keep the salmon as well, but perhaps there is some way we could work THAT into the crest instead as well.  I just think I have too many symbols and need to simplify.

 

The pine is beautiful, I love trees in arms, and it makes it more symmetrical.  Any artistes care to give it a shot?  The sparrowhawk affrontee also sounds interesting too, gives it a very active look, also symmetrical, which might look good too, if anyone wants to try that.

 

I don’t think I understand all of the per-fess and per-pale with regard to the chief and base, and how James’ alternatives per chevron, etc., would look… anyone care to describe to me how they would differ?  Could also try a single shield metal such as in Sutherland MacDonald… http://heraldry-scotland.com/copgal/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=63

 

I think I have also made the decision to forget about differencing entirely.  I think my whole family could use the one shield I design and that would be fine and a whole lot easier to deal with.  I think the cousins would appreciate that more than differenced versions anyway.

 

But I still want to design something for my half-brother.  I like the canting Silvia reference and liked the suggestion of pine trees eradicated vert on a field Or, although I would match the metal to whatever the pine trees would be on in my own shield.  So this is perhaps a good reason to stick with the pine tree rather than sparrowhawk… to show the connection with my brother visibly as well.

 

What about a bordure erable (you know maple-leafy, per earlier discussions) to hint at the French-Canadian connection, and we could even charge the bordure with Cross Crosslet Fitchees to indicate more strongly his attachment to our family?

 

Also, per Mike’s suggestion, I’m open to slight changes to the lion or CCF, but would prefer to keep them similar.  But changing the angle of the hand, etc., would not be major.  So I am open to things like this.  I think the other changes if we go in James’ direction will already be enough to difference pretty significantly, though.

 

Anyway, I’d love to hear more ideas and see any emblazonments people wish to throw at me!  Thanks to all who have taken a hand so far!

 

All best,

Kyle=

 
Kyle MacLea
 
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24 November 2007 21:59
 

Here’s a further wacky brainstorm I had, giving prominence to the Tree, but still including the other two items.

The blazon is, I’m sure to wrong, but I’m no expert there.

 

Or, a New England Pine Tree eradicated Proper between a lion rampant Gules to dexter and a dexter hand couped at the wrist Gules, holding a cross crosslet fitchée Azure to sinister.

 

Could do the same with the trimount in the bottom, but I didn’t care to destroy more of your brain cells by my incorrect blazoning… =)

 

anyway, just some ideas.

 

Kyle=

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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24 November 2007 22:40
 

Hi, Kyle.

This works, provided you mean for the lion and the hand of St. Moluag to be in chief.  If in fess, this would be very crowded; in chief, it’s very Highland.

 

How about:  Or upon a trimount [Gules?] a pine tree proper between in chief a lion rampant and a dexter hand couped Gules grasping a cross crosslet fitchy Azure.

 
Kyle MacLea
 
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25 November 2007 08:13
 

You’re right, Joseph.  I copied the eradicated from elsewhere, erroneously.  Also, I did mean in chief, just trying to come up with a way to give prominence to the tree, not sure if this is the best option.

But I’d love to see what any takers might come up with for emblazonments for the different options.  I think they sound pretty interesting.

 

As for the color of the trimount, I’m open to suggestions and would like to keep the number of tinctures down.  I think Gules (matches the lion and hand), Azure (matches the cross, and outside of Boston there are the Blue Hills, I know), or Vert (matches the pine tree) might work.  Might just have to look at the different versions to see what looks best.

 

Thanks!

 

Kyle=

 
Kyle MacLea
 
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26 November 2007 09:01
 

So I’m looking again at this blazon and trying to read it.

Per fess Or and in chief per pale Or and Argent in dexter chief a lion rampant Gules in sinister chief a dexter hand couped at the wrist Gules, holding a cross crosslet fitchée Azure in base on a triple mount Vert a New England Pine proper.

 

I get that the chief should be Or and Argent, but I don’t know what the rest should be.  Does this mean it has Or to the dexter chief and also on the base of the fess?  (basically looking like a 2nd quarter of argent with quarters 1, 3, and 4 Or?)  Or am I missing something, or is there something missing from the blazon?

 

EDIT: something like this? (see attachment)

 
Kyle MacLea
 
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26 November 2007 09:16
 

Did the same with all-Or.  EDIT:  Added the more prominent Pine Tree as well…

Not sure what I think about all of these, based on my poorly-photoshopped renditions.  I think a more artistic vision might alter my perception.  Any opinions?

 
Kyle MacLea
 
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26 November 2007 09:40
 

And this was what I was thinking about for my brother, pardon the bad edits on the CCFs.

Though the bordure erably might be neat, it might be too busy, and plus, my photoshop skills have their limits.  Thanks to those I have blatantly ripped off in the editing/copying process!

 
Dcgb7f
 
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26 November 2007 11:55
 

I like the Silvia design. Is there any significance to the five trees? If not, perhaps cutting down the number may make it less busy looking.

I like your per fess, chief per pale design, but not the colors. Perhaps you could change the dexter chief tincture to something different from Or. The asymetrical appearance that it has due to the Or blending into the base makes it look unattractive to me.

 
Kyle MacLea
 
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26 November 2007 12:32
 

No particular reason for the 5-tree design, except that’s the one I stole from Fr. Byers’ rendition with the bordure fleur-de-lis.  I thought the 5 trees look good, but I don’t know what they would look like with other numbers, but would love to look at some examples…

I know what you mean regarding the chief per pale coloring…  But I’m not sure what to do.

 

My intention was to try to stick to the coloring of the first two quarters of the stem arms, or to do something different altogether (as in the all-Or design).

 

I tried some modifications which keep that but change the base color instead… they are somewhat odd (too much Azure or Gules, I think) but you can give me your opinion on them as well.