Well most of the time for my video game, I do okay on the blazons, probably some mistakes but I think I do okay.

This blazon has me stumped, only cause i’m unsure on how to describe the field division, so if someone could help me:

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1812/vgskorpiancoacl3.png

Blazon: _________ Argent and Purpure, between two dragons combatant, a harp counterchanged in base.

Thanks in advance

Hi Colin. I think it’’d be:

Purpure, chape Argent, a harp and in chape two dragons rampant combatant all counterchanged.

I am almost certain it is a chape. But how to blazon the dragons there…I’m not sure. However, as you would say, "Purpure, chape Argent…" there is no need to do anything about the metal and color except counterchanged at the end…it’s just how to set up the dragons…I think I’m right though…we’ll see.

I think that a better blazon would be: Chapé Argent and Purpure, two dragons combatant and a harped in base all counter-changed.

As for the achievement, it is much too purple for good taste and the harp is a very tired heraldic cliché.

Seeing that the partition line is curved, shouldn’t the word "ployé" be included, e.g. "Purpure chapé ployé Argent two dragons ..."?

Is this actually chapé?  The partition doesn’t go all the way up to the top of the shield, so it could be "Per chevron ployé Argent and Purpure two dragons…"

I was just about to say what Arthur said when I saw that Arthur had said it.

Donnchadh;51164 wrote:

Hi Colin. I think it’’d be:

Purpure, chape Argent, a harp and in chape two dragons rampant combatant all counterchanged.

I am almost certain it is a chape. But how to blazon the dragons there…I’m not sure. However, as you would say, "Purpure, chape Argent…" there is no need to do anything about the metal and color except counterchanged at the end…it’s just how to set up the dragons…I think I’m right though…we’ll see.

Chapé normally touches the top of the shield.  The more generally accepted blazon for the field division shown here would be: "Per chevron ployé ..."

David

I think a workable and concise blazon would be "Per chevron ployé Argent and Purpure two dragons combatant and a harp counterchanged."  If thought necessary the dragons could be specified as "in chief" and the harp as "in base," but I don’t believe anyone would think the arrangement could be otherwise.

The harp definitely isn’t "between" the dragons.  That would give you an arrangement similar to these arms of the Carrolls of Maryland:

http://www.americanheraldry.org/pages/uploads/Roll/th128—-carroll.jpg.jpg

with the harp occupying the position of the sword and the line of division cutting across all three charges.

(Image by Eric Hall, from our Roll of Early American Arms)

David Pritchard;51165 wrote:

I think that a better blazon would be: Chapé Argent and Purpure, two dragons combatant and a harped in base all counter-changed.

As for the achievement, it is much too purple for good taste and the harp is a very tired heraldic cliché.

A quick note on the arms: It’s for a video game, the person receiving the arms has purple skin (and game legend has it they have the blood of dragons running through them), and his profession is that of a bard, so I think both the purple and the harp are fairly appropriate (and as orange, I am a huge fan of the color purple, So i would say there is never enough purple for good taste. Obviously you and I look through much different lenses David) I have used a clavichord as well to denote previous bards, but I think the harp is a little more recognizable. (of course I’d love to see a bard carry around a harp from place to place, but that’s besides the point)

And thank you all for the help. When I first wrote it up, I was a little nervous too about using between, and you guys have cleared that up very nicely for me. Thanks again, and now Ployé has forever been engrained in my heraldic vocabulary (as well as chapé)

Very well then ploye it is. I seem to remember this same idea about HH Pope Benedict XVI’s arms where it did not reach the top and yet was blazoned as a chape.

Isn’t it rampant combatant, or, is that a redundancy and therefore simply combatant? I seem to recall that in a number of places I’ve seen it as rampant combatant. Although I’ve always thought that a redundancy.

As to a harp being “tired” in heraldry, I must disagree with my good friend David. I think that a dragon, or lion, is a more “tired” charge especially in contrast to the harp. But, that is only my perspective and open to being wrong.

I have no aversion to Purpure, or Tenne, or Sanguine, etc, as David and others do, but in this case I would agree there is a lot of Purpure used here. Purpure is a color, certainly this shade of Purpure, best used – IM very HO – as an accent color; and by that I mean as a secondary charge or in this case to be balanced out by another tincture in the Argent.

Sorry for rambling I needed the distraction…

P.S. "of course I’d love to see a bard carry around a harp from place to place, but that’s besides the point" in Ireland there was a very lively tradition well into the 18th century of harpers walking about from great house to great house bringing with them their harp playing for the great masters of the hall and all. It was a great tradition.

I will concede that maybe the purpure is a bit much in this example, and maybe a different shade at least should be used. It’s probably a little bright combined with the white. Personally I like a previous one I did with purpure highlights the best:

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6954/vgwhelcoahb0.png

Donnchadh;51174 wrote:

Very well then ploye it is. I seem to remember this same idea about HH Pope Benedict XVI’s arms where it did not reach the top and yet was blazoned as a chape.

Quote:

I believe the arms of Benedict XVI are indeed properly blazoned "chapé ployé." They are now always shown with the Gules field reaching to the top of the shield.

No, the chape ploye design is IMO much better heraldry.

I don’t care for purpure much myself, but it is an accepted heraldic color, at least in Western European heraldry.

An interesting point about blazoning "chapé":

In an English edition of O. Neubecker, one finds the blazon: Per pile reversed arched azure two fleurs-de-lis or and or a rose gules.

In the French edition of the same work, the same arms are blazoned: D’or à une rose [de gueules], le champ chapé-ployé à deux fleurs de lis [d’or/du champ].

I find it interesting that, in the English blazon, the field is described as parted, while in the French, "chapé" is blazoned as if it were an ordinary (charged, in this case).

Any suggestions on how to go with this? It would make a difference in how one blazons the arms of Benedict XVI.

I prefer the French style, partly because the style of partition is more Continental than British. Personally, I would blazon the Pope’s arms as "Gules chapé ployé Or, in dexter chief the Freising Moor, in sinister chief the bear of St. Corbinian both proper, and in base an escallop Or."  (I would actually spell out in more detail the first two charges; I’m just condensing here for the sake of brevity."

Following the French style, I was thinking that the pope’s arms might even be blazoned: Gules an Escallop Or the field chapé ployé also Or in dexter chief the Freising Moor and in sinister chief the Bear of St. Corbinian proper.

...a perfect candidate for including "...as is more clearly shown in the margin" as part of the blazon…