Some excellent interpretations here, thank you!

I just discovered last night (had a breakthrough in my genealogical research) that my maternal grandfather through direct patrilineal succession was armigerous and a member of the Order of Malta and the Sacred Military Constantinian Order of St. George as he was a Spanish noble. I’m trying to find out what happened through the years and if my grandfather ever used a coat of arms or if his father before him did and what did it look like. I would like to incorporate some of his design in whichever my final design is.

Hi Kimon,

I am sure there are people here that can help you find the said COA.  There are a lot of resources here and people that can look up things you would have thought impossible. 

Terry;56555 wrote:

Hi Kimon,

I am sure there are people here that can help you find the said COA.  There are a lot of resources here and people that can look up things you would have thought impossible. 

That would be great! Which forum is the appropriate one to post such an inquiry? And I assume an expert there would be able to tell me how much of this COA I can use as my own?

Thanks!

Kimon….my Greek brother…(I’m typing while eating Baclava) 

Yes - we will gladly assist you in what you can use and what is "not so recommended" - You may see the original COA and not like it…or get inspiration to go in a whole new direction….

Thank you Terry!

I’ll compile the details tonight and prepare a post

PS - Enjoy the baklava

kimon;56554 wrote:

I just discovered last night (had a breakthrough in my genealogical research) that my maternal grandfather through direct patrilineal succession was armigerous and a member of the Order of Malta and the Sacred Military Constantinian Order of St. George as he was a Spanish noble.

I am available to search my three books on Spanish heraldry when you post the surname and some information such as where the family was from in Spain. Additionally, I have two books on the Constantinian Order, one written from the perspective of the Spanish Branch and one written from the perspective of the Italian Branch. It would be very informative if a member of your family retained the brevets from both the SMOM and SMCStG, as the grade of membership indicated on these documents would shed a great deal of light on the antiquity of your grandfather’s nobility (which would of course leave another clue in discovering his correct coat-of-arms).

David Pritchard;56563 wrote:

I am available to search my three books on Spanish heraldry when you post the surname and some information such as where the family was from in Spain. Additionally, I have two books on the Constantinian Order, one written from the perspective of the Spanish Branch and one written from the perspective of the Italian Branch. It would be very informative if a member of your family retained the brevets from both the SMOM and SMCStG, as the grade of membership indicated on these documents would shed a great deal of light on the antiquity of your grandfather’s nobility (which would of course leave another clue in discovering his correct coat-of-arms).

Thanks!

Nobody in the family has retained those artifacts but, I will ask my family in Chile to see what they do have.

My maternal grandfather’s name was Fernando Vergara and his earliest ancestor (I could find) was a "Juan Martínez de Vergara" born in Gibraleón, Huelva sometime in the mid 1500’s

This Juan Martínez had an only son also named Juan Martínez de Vergara and was born in the same place in the late 1500’s. This latter Juan Martínez left for Chile in 1601 to fight in the Araucan wars there. He is considered the founder of one of the two Vergara clans in Chile

I’ve created his tree online (to share with others in my family) here: http://es.rodovid.org/wk/Especial:Tree/106337

Though I don’t have all the branches, I do have the first and second born sons (wherever it impacts the line) and plan on adding the rest later.

You might try to track down the series of publications entitled Blasonario de la consanguinidad ibérica produced by Ampelio Alonso-Cadenas López The Library of Congress has five volumes covering 1979-93.  I don’t know if that’s the whole set, or how hard it would be to find it in a university library elsewhere, but it includes a lot of arms borne by people of Hispanic origin throughout the Americas, as well as many of the certifications of new arms issued by the late cronista Vincente Cadenas y Vincent.

Joseph McMillan;56603 wrote:

You might try to track down the series of publications entitled Blasonario de la consanguinidad ibérica produced by Ampelio Alonso-Cadenas López The Library of Congress has five volumes covering 1979-93.  I don’t know if that’s the whole set, or how hard it would be to find it in a university library elsewhere, but it includes a lot of arms borne by people of Hispanic origin throughout the Americas, as well as many of the certifications of new arms issued by the late cronista Vincente Cadenas y Vincent.

Thank you! I’ll try to find it.

I’m also trying to get a copy of the book "Nobleza Colonial de Chile" by J. Mujica but can’t find it anywhere.

This book is my source for all this information but, all I have a photocopies of a few pages made by a cousin of mine. The book is apparently only available in university libraries in Chile.

werewolves;56546 wrote:

Thanks!

I was thinking more like: Per fess Argent and Sable a chief enarched Sable over all a pile counterchanged, at honor point a plate

That works too. Blazon would be tricky as a language for determining legal ownership.

kimon;56576 wrote:

My maternal grandfather’s name was Fernando Vergara

I looked at the entry for your grandfather but found no date of birth or death. These dates would be helpful in tracking down information about his. One of our Society’s members is an honoray knight of the Spanish Branch of the SMCStG, with more information, he may be able to put you in contact with the order genealogist or herald.

David Pritchard;56621 wrote:

I looked at the entry for your grandfather but found no date of birth or death. These dates would be helpful in tracking down information about his. One of our Society’s members is an honoray knight of the Spanish Branch of the SMCStG, with more information, he may be able to put you in contact with the order genealogist or herald.

I’m still trying to confirm the name of the specific ancestor inducted into the orders along with approximate birth and death dates as well as getting specific dates for everyone in the tree. (it’s still very much a work in progress )

As for my grandfather, he was born around 1905 and died in 1988.

Hi, Kimon, and welcome. I am sure you’ll find your Spanish armiger ancestor’s COA an excellent point of departure for your own. You might have noticed from reading other threads that quite a few of us have modified the arms of a clan chief, a matrilineal ancestor, or what have you. See the current thread on matrilineal inheritance if you haven’t already. The COA will be yours, after all, so you should feel free to adopt any design that doesn’t violate the language of heraldry, but I suspect that in the end you will prefer a design based on historical sources to one that derives from your online logo. It’s mainly a question of whether you want to situate yourself within a family tradition or make a brand new start.

Hi Fred, I agree and thank you.

I do look forward to finding out about him and what is really my mother’s coa.

Now that this has surfaced, I think I will also spend some time to make a definite assertion that I don’t have an armigerous ancestor on my father’s side. This also brings me to another question (which probably belongs in a thread of its own): my recently deceased paternal uncle was a Chevalier of the Légion d’honneur and a Commandeur de l’Ordre des Arts et des Lettres. His only heirs are my younger brother and me. What would be appropriate for me to use so that I may honor him? (we were very close)

kimon;56635 wrote:

my recently deceased paternal uncle was a Chevalier of the Légion d’honneur and a Commandeur de l’Ordre des Arts et des Lettres. His only heirs are my younger brother and me. What would be appropriate for me to use so that I may honor him? (we were very close)

Quite seriously and respectfully:  display the insignia of his orders in a shadow box and the brevets of the appointments on the wall, but don’t even think about symbolizing them in any way in your arms.  To decorate your arms with his insignia would obviously be asserting your own membership in these orders; to add something to the shield itself symbolizing the orders would be in the nature of a self-awarded augmentation and even less appropriate.

Even if he had been your father, honors such as these are not inherited.  They would be part of his arms, but they cannot be part of your own, any more than my father’s Bronze Star and Meritorious Service Medal can be part of mine.