Kyle MacLea;58201 wrote:
Love it! I think you really have a winner here!
Actually the more I play around with the idea the more I like the good Friar’s suggestions for both crest (a bird quarterly) and badge (clarion quarterly). I think I’m going to use both of them.
Thank you, Friar.
Might I suggest the fleam for a charge on the shield?
Jonathan R. Baker;58206 wrote:
Might I suggest the fleam for a charge on the shield?
Sure. What’s the reasoning? Is it purely aesthetic, or is there another reason.
At this stage of design, the shield is: Gules a lion rampant argent its head or, a chief azure semy of _______. I started with semy-de-lis argent, but right now I’m trying some other charges for the semy. I had thought open books would look nice, but they really don’t. After the good Friar’s* suggestion of the clarion for the badge, I might try semy of clarions.
* As a long time archer I love being able to say good Friar. Almost makes me feel like Robin Hood.
I like the use of the clarion. It is a simple and easily distinguishable charge. With the BoH, my eldest sister chose the clarion as a mark of difference for her arms.
Have you considered that your arms could simply be Gules semy of clarions Argent? It is my opinion that the use of a lion in new arms is just a perpetuation of a very tired heraldic cliché.
As to your crest, the quarterly popinjay crest works very well and it could even be unique though there may have been something like it granted in the fifteenth or sixteenth centuries by one of the English Kings-of-arms when popinjays were more commonly utilised and the quarterly heraldic crest more frequently employed.
Dale Challener Roe;58209 wrote:
Sure. What’s the reasoning? Is it purely aesthetic, or is there another reason.
A fleam is, or was, the instrument used by barber-surgeons for bleeding their patients.
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After the good Friar’s* suggestion of the clarion for the badge, I might try semy of clarions.
* As a long time archer I love being able to say good Friar. Almost makes me feel like Robin Hood.
I don’t know whether Fr. Byers minds being addressed as "Friar" or not, but I’m afraid Fr. actually stands for "Father."
David Pritchard;58210 wrote:
Have you considered that your arms could simply be Gules semy of clarions Argent?
Or, for that matter, of fleams, or of fleams and clarions alternately.
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It is my opinion that the use of a lion in new arms is just a perpetuation of a very tired heraldic cliché.
Ahem! (Yes, I know, you know I know, I know you know I know, etc.)
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As to your crest, the quarterly popinjay crest works very well and it could even be unique though there may have been something like it granted in the fifteenth or sixteenth centuries by one of the English Kings-of-arms when popinjays were more commonly utilised and the quarterly heraldic crest more frequently employed.
To get the musical reference, however, might it not be better to choose a songbird? A nightingale? A mockingbird? (Although a mockingbird in other than proper colors might be confusing). Perhaps a finch or cardinal. A popinjay (parrot) just seems to be a curious way of alluding to barbershop quartet singing—unless they weren’t very good!
Joseph McMillan;58212 wrote:
A fleam is, or was, the instrument used by barber-surgeons for bleeding their patients.
To me that would seem like a good reason not to use it, as my father was not a surgeon. Additionally, although there’s no way anyone here would have known, as my father died from a disease of the blood, it would also be a rather morbid charge.
Joseph McMillan;58212 wrote:
I don’t know whether Fr. Byers minds being addressed as "Friar" or not, but I’m afraid Fr. actually stands for "Father."
:oops: Father, please forgive my ignorance.
Joseph McMillan;58213 wrote:
Or, for that matter, of fleams, or of fleams and clarions alternately.
On an aside, can a field be semy of more than one charge? What does that look like, a checkerboard of charges?
Joseph McMillan;58213 wrote:
To get the musical reference, however, might it not be better to choose a songbird? A nightingale? A mockingbird? (Although a mockingbird in other than proper colors might be confusing). Perhaps a finch or cardinal. A popinjay (parrot) just seems to be a curious way of alluding to barbershop quartet singing—unless they weren’t very good!
Actually some parrots are quite good singers, although it depends on what type of parrot you’re talking about. I may yet wind up using a bird from the family of songbirds. An advantage of parrot is that there is an actual connection to my father, plus they lend themselves to just about any color.
I’m not so sure about a semy of clarions. Too small, and the clarions would become difficult to recognize. It is, after all, not that common a charge. Normally, I would use only two or three clarions on a chief; but with the barbershop allusion, I might use four—a quartet.
Also, if the badge is going to be a clarion gules and argent, what about making the chief gules charged with clarions argent. The field could then be azure with the lion argent and or.
I tend to agree with David, that the lion is overused. If there is a good (even just a sort-of-good) reason for it, great! But if not, why?
And I don’t mind "Friar." Just don’t call me "Monsignor"!
Dohrman Byers;58220 wrote:
I’m not so sure about a semy of clarions. Too small, and the clarions would become difficult to recognize. It is, after all, not that common a charge. Normally, I would use only two or three clarions on a chief; but with the barbershop allusion, I might use four—a quartet.
Also, if the badge is going to be a clarion gules and argent, what about making the chief gules charged with clarions argent. The field could then be azure with the lion argent and or.
The quartet of clarions is something I was already thinking about. Four color variations…
http://www.dcroe.com/images/heraldry/clarions.png
Dohrman Byers;58220 wrote:
I tend to agree…that the lion is overused. If there is a good (even just a sort-of-good) reason for it, great! But if not, why?
I do have a sort-of-good reason. Not great but good enough for me and my father.
Dale Challener Roe;58238 wrote:
I really like all of the combinations in these illustrations Dale. My own inclination is toward the bottom two since I have always like the arms of the city of Paris. I am so pleased that someone has taken a liking to the heraldic jousting shield of the War of the Roses and Tudor periods. It is a great form with much style and flair though very under-appreciated by the heraldic masses.
David Pritchard;58240 wrote:
I really like all of the combinations in these illustrations Dale. My own inclination is toward the bottom two since I have always like the arms of the city of Paris. I am so pleased that someone has taken a liking to the heraldic jousting shield of the War of the Roses and Tudor periods. It is a great form with much style and flair though very under-appreciated by the heraldic masses.
The last one is my favorite. And in fact the arms of the city of Paris were the direct inspiration for this configuration. My father’s name is Dennis, one meaning of which is named for St. Denis, the patron saint of Paris. That was why I was trying to make semy work for the top section.
And I’m very much a fan of this shape. Although it’s fairly obvious that it’s a jousting shield, I didn’t know what period it was from.
Dale Challener Roe;58241 wrote:
And I’m very much a fan of this shape. Although it’s fairly obvious that it’s a jousting shield, I didn’t know what period it was from.
The real version or rather the steel jousting shield of this stylised shape is actually not that large, I would guess two feet high at the maximum*; is made of hardened steel with a somewhat concave surface toward the opponent and most often bolted to the armor of the rider.
*Just where are my two or three armor books to be found when I want to reference exact historical measurements?
May I suggest a simple but elegant crest design that is in keeping with the extreme Gallic dignity of your last design proposal? On a wreath Gules lined Argent a clarion Argent This would give you five clarions in total, a perfect number in both European and Asian cultures, rather than four clarions, a number associated with death in Asian cultures. Should you choose the popinjay over the clarion, it is my opinion that the popinjay would look best in Argent with the beak and eye in Or or Gules depending upon your personal taste.
Either of the bottom would be my pick. I like the one on the right a little better, but I really like the idea Fr. Byers had about connecting the arms to the quartered badge by making the chief Gules with Argent charges.
