Georgia

 
Michael Y. Medvedev
 
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Michael Y. Medvedev
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09 August 2008 04:25
 

xanderliptak;61924 wrote:

pfft they are so clearly different grin

It’s easy. If you drink chacha or enough of red wine, you think it is Georgia, if you drink vodka, you think it’s Moscow.

 
Michael Swanson
 
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Michael Swanson
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12 August 2008 15:25
Daniel C. Boyer
 
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Daniel C. Boyer
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12 August 2008 16:37
 

David Pritchard;61913 wrote:

I think that this would make a fine coat-of-arms, as retaining the present arms, Gules, Saint George slaying a dragon Proper, opens the Republic of Georgia up to claims on its territory by the Mayor of Moscow.


Not really as the tinctures are different.  I think the point should be made, however, that St. George should not be shown as nimbed Or, as he is in the emblazonment, when according to the blazon he should be nimbed Argent, as this is not otherwise specified.

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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12 August 2008 21:50
 

Daniel C. Boyer;62087 wrote:

Not really as the tinctures are different.  I think the point should be made, however, that St. George should not be shown as nimbed Or, as he is in the emblazonment, when according to the blazon he should be nimbed Argent, as this is not otherwise specified.


I am sorry Daniel that you failed to understand that I was making a joke that was meant to provoke a response from our fine Russian colleague Michael Medvedev. He understood the joke and responded in kind. So often humour does not carry well in written form, less the facial expressions and the intonation of the words.

 
Mark Olivo
 
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Mark Olivo
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12 August 2008 23:34
 
 
David E. Cohen
 
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David E. Cohen
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13 August 2008 11:25
 

Surprisingly similar.  wink

 
Mark Olivo
 
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Mark Olivo
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13 August 2008 12:13
 

David E. Cohen;62110 wrote:

Surprisingly similar.  wink


Yes, what a coincidence!

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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13 August 2008 15:27
 

How is this any different than the Kosovars using the Albanian flag for so many years as a symbol of ethnic identity? Just as with the Kosovars and Albanians, the North and South Ossetians are one people with a common symbol divided by an international border. What ever became of the often parroted (by the US State Department) concept of self determination? What has applied to one situation should apply to the other.

 
Mark Olivo
 
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Mark Olivo
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13 August 2008 16:32
 

Do we really want to engage in a debate on this board about how much self-determination is actually being exercised?

 
Madalch
 
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Madalch
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13 August 2008 17:20
 

Mark Olivo;62128 wrote:

Do we really want to engage in a debate on this board about how much self-determination is actually being exercised?

No.  Not on this forum, anyway.

 
MohamedHossam
 
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MohamedHossam
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13 August 2008 17:27
 

Yeah, about that heraldry….. :D

I like how the snow-leopard is depicted. Very eastern looking.

 

According to the wikipedia article,
Quote:

The coat of arms used by the Government of the Republic of South Ossetia, adopted in 1998, is based on the coat of arms of North Ossetia-Alania, designed by the Georgian scientist Prince Vakhushti Bagrationi in 1735.[


Was Prince Vakhushti Bagrationi a heraldic pioneer in Russia? Anyone have an image of the arms he designed?

 

Cheers,

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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13 August 2008 19:10
 

MohamedHossam;62133 wrote:

Was Prince Vakhushti Bagrationi a heraldic pioneer in Russia? Anyone have an image of the arms he designed?


Vakhushti, born in 1696, was the illegitimate son of Vakhtang VI (Bagration), King of Kartli who went on to became an important historian, cartographer and geographer of the Caucasus Region who authored two books: The Description of the Kingdom of Georgia, completed in 1745, The Geographic Description of Georgia, completed in 1750, as well as two atlases of the region that contained plates of historic coats-of-arms. He married Princess Mariam Abashidze in 1716 and following an invasion by the Ottoman Turks in 1724, he fled to Moscow where he died in 1758 and is interred at the Donskoi Monastery.

 

Below is an image of a plate of the Bagration coat-of-arms from one of the circa 1742 geographic atlases of Prince Vakhushti:


<div class=“bbcode_center” >
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2730/bagrationcoact9.jpg
</div>


See this link for more heraldic images by Prince Vakhushti which includes his illustration of the flag of Ovseti which is the inspiration for the modern day seals of North and South Ossetia.

 
MohamedHossam
 
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MohamedHossam
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14 August 2008 02:39
 

Ah, I see, thanks David.

Here is an image of the flag:

 

http://rustaveli.tripod.com/droshebi/oseti.jpg

 

Cheers,

 
Michael Y. Medvedev
 
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Michael Y. Medvedev
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14 August 2008 06:24
 

Re. the arms of Ossetia -

14 years ago I participated in creation of the arms of the Northern Ossetia - not as a co-author but rather as an ‘editor’, cleaning the drafts of non-heraldic surroundings of the shield, unproper inscriptions, artificial marshalling etc. It was not easy also to prevent the escutcheon’s form being fixed in the blazon. The credit for the amiable drawing is to be fully given to the Ossetian artist - I do not remember the name.

Re. the Bagrationi family -

May I invite all who is interested to check into my paper about this ancient lineage and especially about the two modern Royal Houses of Georgia:

http://the.heraldry.ru/text/bagratide.html

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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14 August 2008 07:55
 

Michael Y. Medvedev;62167 wrote:

May I invite all who is interested to check into my paper about this ancient lineage and especially about the two modern Royal Houses of Georgia:

http://the.heraldry.ru/text/bagratide.html


An excellent article Michael! Somehow you managed to explain a very complicated historical and genealogical matter in a short article. This was no simple task to accomplish. Is the Order of the Eagle of Georgia and the Seamless Tunic of Our Lord Jesus Christ treated as a foreign order by the Georgian Government or as some other sort of order such as a Red Cross order?