Sandy Turnbull;68923 wrote:
Chaperonné (Fr.) : Similar to the chapé but with the diagonal lines meeting the sides of the shield at fess
I stand corrected. My appologies, Fr. Dohrman. I was reading Parker’s Glossary and looking at the picture of a Chapé, which was directly under the definition of Chaperonné. It just goes to show that I need to read a bit more before I speak (write).
Dohrman Byers;68923 wrote:
I wonder, though, whether one needs to add "per chevron enhanced throughout" to get the partition lines to touch the top of the shield at the center.
Agreed. Throughout should be included in the blazon.
Take care,
Joshua,
I liked your proposed crest, but I couldn’t shake the feeling that I’d seen it somewhere before. Then today, quite by coincidence I came across the source of my deja vu. You can visit the page on the IAAH website for more information on the arms.
So now that we see there’s another very similar to it, I assume I shouldn’t use it?
Crests are not required to be unique - however, I’d consider using a different raven position and combine the cross with it in a slightly different way.
Maybe:
On a celtic cross Argent a Raven rising proper?
Or you could have the Cross on a ribbon/chain around it’s neck - or the Raven chained to the cross in some way… or…
Well, just something slightly different - the combinations are pretty extensive.
Alright I’ll see what I can come up with. I’ve been busy the last few days because of work haha.
The other example is a raven holding the cross. IIRC (maybe I don’t—comes with age) yours was a raven essentially wearing a rosary—i.e. a cross on a string or necklace. For a crest, that stikes me as sufficient difference; though on the shield itself, if that were the only difference, I’d say no.
Not bad Joshua, but it gives one the distinct feeling your raven is hiding from something, IMHO… 
Haha wow, never would have thought of that. Guess we all take different things from art when me first see it :D.
AILD;69295 wrote:
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p122/BrokenChainsX/1Test.png
The problem I have with this type of crest is that the helm must always face dexter for the crest to be identifiable. I prefer crests which look the same from every angle and thus offer variety in the orientation of the helm.
Have you considered using the pine tree as your crest and replacing the pine trees on the shield with crows respectant?
If I was going to make this crest from the front it would have a cross on either side of the raven (obviously it would be the "edge" of the cross). I don’t think the raven is hiding - given his face is forward, I just think he’s enjoying the wind in his feathers…
David Pritchard;69300 wrote:
The problem I have with this type of crest is that the helm must always face dexter for the crest to be identifiable. I prefer crests which look the same from every angle and thus offer variety in the orientation of the helm.
The problem with that theory is, if you really want to be technical, if you want something to appear exactly the same no matter how you look at it, you end up with a simple 3D shape such as a sphere, cube, or pyramid, or as you suggested, a tree. The problem is when you have a cross on the crest no matter which position you put it in, when viewed from the side it won’t look like a cross.
Oh, and I would rather not touch the shield that I already have, I’ve finally come to a design I really like and don’t want to screw it up.
Then by all means you should keep the arms as devised. However, that leaves us/you with the "problem" of the crest. (I don’t think it really is a problem, BTW.) Could the raven hold a more simplified celtic cross in its beak? Not on a "chain"? Or is there another possibility you have considered besides the Pine (which I do like)?
AILD;69315 wrote:
The problem with that theory is, if you really want to be technical, if you want something to appear exactly the same no matter how you look at it, you end up with a simple 3D shape such as a sphere, cube, or pyramid, or as you suggested, a tree. The problem is when you have a cross on the crest no matter which position you put it in, when viewed from the side it won’t look like a cross.
Not necessarily. A cross works either affronty or in profile. But, for example, suppose the crest is a dog sejant holding a bone in his right forepaw. This can be depicted in profile quite easily, but it can also be depicted with the helmet affronty, with the dog in a similar posture to the lion in the Scottish royal crest. The raven holding the cross in its beak can be depicted affronty if desired, even more clearly if the wings are raised. The suggestion of a raven standing behind a cross doesn’t work as well if the helm is rotated 90 degrees.
I think the point David is making is that a crest should ideally be something that a real knight from the age of tournaments might have worn on his helm, and that it therefore should be susceptible of being depicted from any angle. Does that make sense?
When knights first started using crests for tournament purposes though, didn’t they simply start out as 2D cutouts? Not that I’m trying to counter you, I’m just asking haha. I thought I remember reading that at some point.
