I am a moderator and, while I find the Rev. Fr. Martynov’s biography very interesting, I must agree with Joe and ask that the discussion return to heraldry. Unfortunately, discussions associated with religious and political affiliations tend to encite very heated arguments, leaving forum readers with a bad view of our Society. I feel that this discussion has not violated any forum rules, however this is a good time to caution all forum contributors that we should keep to the subject of heraldry.
Take care,
So be it,.... I was hoping somebody had his CoA!
(Or an idea were it could be found, ....."IF" all of them had a CoA?)
(some people are voicing doubts that he existed…. therefore I gave details)
Seemingly another person lost in history, or other reasons unknown to me!!!
Anyway .......your wish is granted!
Best regards,
Frank
Just catching up… and this thread is ending. :(
Oh well, it was a very interesting thread while it lasted - and actually very heraldic in a European sense. Frank is trying to identify the arms by identifying the lineage. That is the absolutely correct approach in heraldry. Sorting out the family lines of prominent families is about sorting out their arms as well. If you can identify the lineage the arms are often clarified.
The life achievements of the man are interesting and would have all also been reflected in his arms - his ordination, appointment as a Canon, putative appointment to a See, appointment as a chaplain of the Sovereign Order of Malta all have heraldic significance. All clues in solving the puzzle.
Heraldry is inextricably linked with genealogy and of course history - otherwise we bring it down to armnoury or to pretty pictures rather than seeing heraldry as an allied historical science which it is and as a broader discipline that is concerned with not only arms but those who bear them and in particular their precedence and standing.
That said, the discussion can probbably continue elsewhere.
Because most Americans having a coat-of-arms have created one themselves, they sometimes over look the importance of genealogical research to ascertain ones right to historical inherited arms. Had Mr. Martynoff assumed the first Russian arms granted to someone bearing the surname Martynoff, I coulld just imagine him being deluged with responses informing him that this was inappropriate and that he should do exhaustive research to document his claim to the arms (which he was trying attempting to do in this thread).
On a personal level I found the turn of this thread quite interesting as I tried for a number of years to gain access to the Maltese Chapel within the Suvorov Academy. Through the kindness of the Director of the State Museum of the History of St. Peterburg, I was introduced to Fr. Bogdan, Rector of the Saint Nicholas Cathedral and Religious Advisor to the Suvorov Academy. Father Bogdan telephoned the Commandant and arranged for me to tour the Maltese Chapel while it was under renovation and many years before it was open to visitors by appointment.
David Pritchard;73600 wrote:
Because most Americans having a coat-of-arms have created one themselves, they sometimes over look the importance of genealogical research to ascertain ones right to historical inherited arms. Had Mr. Martynoff assumed the first Russian arms granted to someone bearing the surname Martynoff, I could just imagine him being deluged with responses informing him that this was inappropriate and that he should do exhaustive research to document his claim to the arms (which he was trying attempting to do in this thread).
Hi David,
Thank you!
your quite correct .....at this point my research could go in any direction
I won’t know the outcome until I am there!
(the chances being the same family are extremely small
nor am I concerned about it…as long it is the correct one!)
That’s why the Coat of Arms from Adolph (if he had one)
as George was kind enough to mention,
would have most likely given me a clue regarding the origin!
David "they" are in contact with me,
but also unable to help!
David if you, George or anybody else
is coming across some clarifying information (or where to obtain it),
I would be glad to hear about it!
Thank you and best regards,
Frank
Hopefully this is on topic. When I was a freshman-sophmore at UCLA in the early 1960’s, A fellow student with surname Utgoff showed me a bookplate from his family. Its been decades & details are fuzzy in my entropic memory, but I recall, in the lower half of the field, a masoned & IIRC embattled wall with a gatewayt—the rest is unclear. Any chance of identifying this family?
Thanks either way!
I have the records for arms granted prior to 1799 for all the Russias, records of coats-of-arms of those living in Mala Rossiya (Ukraine) prior to 1914 and for all those bearing the title of Prince of the Russian Empire. There are great gaps in my library for example a new grantee living in Minsk in 1845, a grantee living in the Urals in 1899, or a grantee living in Saint Petersburg in 1911. Perhaps Michael has a better collection of references than I and is willing to assist you. By the way the surname, as with so many surnames of the Russian nobility, has been Gallicised, the original Russian spelling being more like Utgov.
Most likely the original name was of German provenance: Uthof[f], which could become Utgof[f] via Polonisation of the spelling. An architect of this name lived in Russia about two centuries ago; and Victor Utgoff (1889-1930) was a Russian ace, the Russian Navy’s first wartime pilot, and reputedly the first pilot to start his flight from a navy ship during the WWI. He destroyed 5 German planes, raided to the Ottoman territory - and later, when the reds came to power, emigrated to the USA where owned the premises used by Sikorski for his experimental flights. Utgoff died on the US service. I am not sure as to his roots but as a Knight of St George he was a hereditary noble anyhow. It seems that his posterity is flourishing in the USA.
MM—Thanks! Whether my schoolmate was of that same lineage I can’t say, but most interesting!
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By frankmartinoff at 2011-05-12
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Just for completion!
Prelate and Cathedral Canon
at the Chapel of St. John of Jerusalem
"Part of the Corps des Pages"
I guess not quite finished, for those of you who aren’t at rec.h.
He was at the Corps de Pages from 1874 till 1902,
information from the Corps de Pages is that he graduated from the Spiritual
Academy in Wilno before he made his magistrate at the Spiritual Academy in St.
Petersburg!
Wilno was the Center of the Catholic Church before it was moved to St.
Petersburg!
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