Shield Designs

 
John Mck
 
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John Mck
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31 August 2009 07:47
 

Graphically I like the quartering a lot. But PLEASE don’t use the green keyline running around everything - it really detracts.

The problem with quartering - it suggests marshalling the arms of a 2nd family inherited through a female line. The inheritance police may pay you a visit.

 

Of the recent crop, I’d vote for either of Kenneth’s recent designs.

 
Kathy McClurg
 
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Kathy McClurg
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31 August 2009 08:55
 

Please don’t use quartering for an original design.  If you are trying to establish a heraldic tradition within your family it causes down the line problems - simpler is definitely better to start.

I’ve done a bit of looking through "back" discussions.  since my thoughts on Vert/Sable with Argent charges didn’t please -

 

I like the simplicity of Kenneth’s "vert" suggestion of all the "newer" suggestions in this thread, but I must admit - when I see your current design, I already relate it to you in my mind…

 

One other thought - Although not in a "hurry" - Combinations are endless even with charges and colors "known" - I sometimes look at my arms and think… maybe I should have gone Per Fess nebuly instead of Per Chevron, or maybe I should have gone per fess Or and Argent and just let the arrow be Sable or maybe… Then I realize how crazy it could make me…  and I remember, My arms are my arms, they are well designed, have personal and family meaning and, well - I like them and all the immediate family variants.. On to Badges! (and maybe crests for the other female members of the family and artwork and the rest).  I’m not advocating accepting something you don’t like or doesn’t sit well, but… there’s also no need to second guess yourself alot, either. and once settled there are badges and banners and mottos (have I missed that discussion?) and family members to "tie in" and friends to help and - It’s not like when you are "done" with yours there isn’t so much more to do… wink

 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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31 August 2009 09:53
 

Yikes, sorry about the quartered design…and heaven forgive me for the green lines around it…I even said myself it was too much and I was just putting it up for the hey of it.  I didn’t know the quartered look would be such a big deal, I was just trying things.  Haha…too bad it was one of the better designs in my opinion.

I have to say I am happy with my current design still.  I apologize to McMillan, because I know he thinks I’ve completely lost it, and have completely lost any structure in what I’m doing.  But I argue this…I’ve stood firm with keeping the wolf, and the tree on the shield.  Not to mention I’ve been accused several times by various people, either directly or more in a hinting fashion, that I’m being too close minded with my design and should try other things.  Now when I am trying to completely let go of my original design, purely just to see how it looks, and so I can at least say I tried it…people now are thinking I’ve lost my mind.  Guess a person just can’t win, but oh well.  I’ll continue to do my own thing regardless…and I do appreciate those of you who’ve given me a lot of positive feedback that I’ve taken to heart…Kathy, John, Kenneth…just to only name a few, there have been others.

 

I guess the one thing I’m having trouble with is this.  When I place the shields on the complete coat of arms…when there is black in the design, it really brings out the color in the raven and really balances the look overall.  When you have the shield just by itself, I really like my original design…yes including the countered chevronnel.  But again, without any black it in, it loses a certain pop.  With that design you’d either have to change it completely to black, or keep it green and white, because adding a third color to it is out of the question…it just makes it look like chaos.

 

One last this is this…the problem I have with the designs Kenneth posted on page three, post #25, is the white at the top.  I just don’t like the way having white at the top looks on it for some reason.  Now if you reverse it and have vert on the top, and white on the bottom it looks better…but like what (I think it was Kenneth) said, somehow a green wolf is just striking me as odd.

 
John Mck
 
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John Mck
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31 August 2009 12:57
 

Quote:

I guess the one thing I’m having trouble with is this. When I place the shields on the complete coat of arms…when there is black in the design, it really brings out the color in the raven and really balances the look overall. When you have the shield just by itself, I really like my original design…yes including the countered chevronnel. But again, without any black it in, it loses a certain pop. With that design you’d either have to change it completely to black, or keep it green and white, because adding a third color to it is out of the question…it just makes it look like chaos.


I’d design the shield first and the crest to follow, personally. A shield on its own is usable in many more contexts than a full achievement.

 

 

Also something to consider - do a black-and-white version or a "hatched" version before you register - if you intend to use your arms on stationery, stamps, or similar things, you might not be able to print in color.

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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31 August 2009 13:33
 

Joshua,

I think some of the problems you are having are contextual. One reason the shield seems "flat" when you put it in the full achievement is that…well…it is. Try putting some shape to the shield (not the elements on it - I know you are fond of these particular illustrations as they are). You’re helm, mantling, and crest have a considerable amount of depth. Make the shield fit in. Also, if you look at your own artwork, the mantling is set up perfectly to bring out a white top of the shield. If you are looking to bring some balance to the full achievement as far as the black of the raven, I suggest simply adding a motto scroll and using a calligraphic hand that is rather dense for the lettering. There are artistic ways to bring out the black that do not require including it in the shield.

 

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3771/stolarzachievement.jpg

 
 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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31 August 2009 13:36
 

John Mck;71400 wrote:

I’d design the shield first and the crest to follow, personally. A shield on its own is usable in many more contexts than a full achievement.

 

Also something to consider - do a black-and-white version or a "hatched" version before you register - if you intend to use your arms on stationery, stamps, or similar things, you might not be able to print in color.


I’ll try to keep that in mind.  The problem is the crest I have, I really like haha.

 

Alright just throwing some other ideas around.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p122/BrokenChainsX/Examples.png

 

The bottom two are my least favorite I think.

 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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31 August 2009 13:38
 

I see what you’re saying Kenneth…and you’re right that does look a lot better.  Funny how sometimes the answer to the problem is staring a person right in the face and you don’t see it.  I’ll have to try some things out, thanks for the suggestion.

 
Dohrman Byers
 
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Dohrman Byers
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31 August 2009 13:42
 

AILD;71396 wrote:

I guess the one thing I’m having trouble with is this.  When I place the shields on the complete coat of arms…when there is black in the design, it really brings out the color in the raven and really balances the look overall. ... One last this is this…the problem I have with the designs Kenneth posted on page three, post #25, is the white at the top.  I just don’t like the way having white at the top looks on it for some reason.  Now if you reverse it and have vert on the top, and white on the bottom it looks better…but like what (I think it was Kenneth) said, somehow a green wolf is just striking me as odd.


What about green on top, white on the bottom, with a black wolf?

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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31 August 2009 13:45
 

Shhh. That’s too close to what I’ve been working on for my wife.

 
 
Dale Challener Roe
 
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Dale Challener Roe
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31 August 2009 14:21
 

Kenneth,

I like the design for your wife.  It makes me especially glad I didn’t suggest Joshua persue the idea I mentioned back in post #8.

 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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31 August 2009 15:36
 

Very nice Kenneth, I like what you’ve got so far.  You guys are a lot better at this than I am haha.  I know I’m just overthinking it though.

 
Dale Challener Roe
 
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Dale Challener Roe
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31 August 2009 15:57
 

AILD;71411 wrote:

...I know I’m just overthinking it though.


Joshua,

 

Yes you are, but it’s a common "mistake" at this point.  In your gut you want everyone to say your proposed design is brilliant, and when people don’t it can be difficult to take their comments the way they were intended.  And then once you finally let go and try to embrace the advice and "start over" people can get frustrated because they felt you were making progress.

 

I went through the same process, frustrating more than one of our members along the way.

 

If I may make a small observation…I wonder if you might be guilty of something Kenneth accused me of when I was designing my arms (correctly, I might add).  You might want to consider that much of you graphic preferences are tied to a more modern idea of graphic design, while heraldry is tied to an older MUCH simpler aesthetic.  I wonder if your comment that certain designs look too flat is something that can be modified with the emblazon of your arms and not necessarily in the blazon.

 

For instance, if you look at our own Armorial (make sure you look at the thumbnails, and not the individual pages), I contend that Fr. Byers’ arms are both the simplest and most original.

 

Just my 2ยข.

 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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31 August 2009 16:25
 

I think you’ve pretty much hit the nail right on the head with the way I’m feeling.  You’re also probably right about my graphic preferences being more modern…it’s almost a set-back for me that I’ve been doing banners and other graphics for a lot of things, for around 6 years…so flashy-wise I know what is eye-catching.  By no means am I trying to sound big-headed…but after doing graphics for as long as I have, most of the time when I make a banner or something I get completely showered in praise…I tend to be the "go-to guy".  So now coming here has really given me a touch of reality…when I’m taken out of my comfort zone I’m just another beginner haha.

I don’t know about you guys, but I’m starting to feel that I should just stick to my guns, and stick with the original design that’s in my avatar.  I’m not sure though…maybe it is too…modern looking.

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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31 August 2009 16:56
 

Joshua, I think you will find that on this most here will finally agree with you. You are overthinking it. And you are allowing yourself to fall into the trap of graphic-design thinking. There is much to be admired about modern design aesthetics - many of us here are graphic designers and artists - but much of it has no place in designing arms. Much of what makes for good design makes for bad heraldry and vice versa. That isn’t to say that there isn’t overlap. There is. But….

From the most recent conversation, I think the best two designs are those below. I don’t like the black and green field without the chevron, not because it’s wrong, but because it’s ugly, so in that case I make exception for the chevron. I do prefer, however, the illustration on the right, which I mocked up earlier in your full achievement. Either, though, are considerably better IMHO than the current version (parted per pale and counterchanged) as far as heraldic design goes. I don’t think you’d find a lot of people here trying to convince you to abandon either of these.

 

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7178/stolarz2.jpg

 
 
J. Stolarz
 
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J. Stolarz
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31 August 2009 17:09
 

I’m seeing what you mean about having to make the shield 3D to make it look right.  Here’s a couple I did…let me know your thoughts.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p122/BrokenChainsX/Upload.png