Has anyone ever encountered a crest being used as the crest below is used?
Please, provide examples if you have. Thanks in advance.
The coat of arms you show doesn’t appear to have a crest, just a motto on a ribbon.
Larger picture:
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/503054199/seal_red_normal.jpg
The arm and hammer issuing from the torse at fess point, if standing alone, would be considered a crest. In this case, it seems to me, it has to be considered just an unusual charge on the shield ("... and in fess point issuant from a torse X & Y an arm embowed grasping a hammer proper…").
According to the college’s webiste, the official description of the seal is "In the field is an open shield bearing two open books at the base of which is the coat of arms of the city of Worcester, surmounted by a bent upraising arm holding a hammer. Above the shield is the motto in German, ‘Lehr und Kunst.’" I thought that maybe the arm & hammer charge was the crest of the city’s arms, but that does not seem to be the case as the ordinance establishing the city seal provides: "The Seal of the City shall be a circular form, having in the centre as a device, the figure of a Heart, and having in the margin, beginning at the centre of the left side, the words "Worcester a Town June 14, 1722; a City February 29, 1848," according to the design hereunto annexed."
http://www.ci.worcester.ma.us/media/cco/city_seal.gif
Further searching on the college’s website led me to its Visual Identity Guide which has this description of the shield: "It includes a central shield containing graphical elements that relate to WPI’s history and mission: a heart (symbolizing Worcester, the heart of the commonwealth) and two open books and an arm and hammer (representing WPI’s heritage of balancing theory with application). " and the following depiction of the "official" seal:
http://www.wpi.edu/Images/CMS/Guide/seal.gif
The arm and hammer are used as a weathervane on one of the college’s buildings.
I don’t think I’ve come accross a heraldic device with the chief the same tincture as the rest of the shield.
Hi All:
Thanks for the leads.
The two features that are most puzzling for me about this SOA are:
(1) the crest on the field
and
(2) the chief that is the same color as the field
These two features may be anomalies, but I just wanted to check before I made that conclusion. I have not come across examples of either in the few books that I own, or generally in the four years since I took up an interest in armorial design and practice.
I forgot to mention the second point in my original post, but I was aware of it. Online, I’ve found examples of the concept party per chief in the works of both Parker and Pimbley, but no examples in which the resulting divisions are the same color.
Would it be too generous to consider the line in question either a fillet or barrulet sable?
Trent;75319 wrote:
Would it be too generous to consider the line in question either a fillet or barrulet sable?
Yes, far too generous. I suspect that this design was originally done simply as a line drawing to be used as a seal, with no tinctures specified or perhaps even contemplated. Who knows where the blue chief on blue field came from?
Academic and civic heraldry in the US is full of this kind of anomaly, if not this particular one.
It’s a coat of arms that could be made very nice with just a little tweaking. Given that WPI’s colors are crimson and gray, I’d suggest "Argent a heart Gules within a laurel wreath Vert, on a chief Gules an arm couped above the elbow reflexed holding a hammer between two open books Argent."
Alternatively, just two books on the chief, with the arm and hammer moved up as a crest.
Joseph McMillan;75320 wrote:
Yes, far too generous. I suspect that this design was originally done simply as a line drawing to be used as a seal, with no tinctures specified or perhaps even contemplated.
I’ve had the same suspicion.
On a side note, I like how the sprout in Jay Bohn’s SOA is shaped like a "J."
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5395/macloughlinomelaghlin.jpg http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5859/osullivanmor.jpg
I found these images in another thread today. Dividing the chief per pale, in the first, is done to underscore the distinction between groups of charges? Is this common in Irish and Scottish heraldry?
Denny, are there more cases of this? If so can you post a few more here in this thread, especially ones that were designed prior to 1884.
I spent a few hours in the archives today going over the history of the WPI shield. Some of the documents go back to 1884, but none of them mention tinctures. They all focus on the charges, their arrangement, and symbolism. I wonder if this Irish/Scottish practice may help explain why the "tincture" of the WPI shield is the same throughout despite the partition line.
Perhaps the designer, Alonzo S. Kimball, was inspired by Scottish heraldry, as the motto scroll is placed above the WPI shield in Scottish fashion.
I’m sure Denny will reply in terms of Irish coats of arms, but many of the Scots coats of arms that you are thinking of are part of a sub-set of Scottish heraldry that is known as "West Highland Heraldry" there is a rather good article on the subject by Alastair Campbell of Airds on the HSS website.
West Highland heraldry can be considered to be the creation of arms by quartering certain "totemic" charges (rather than arms of a particular lineage). As the number of these "totems" is fairly small, I don’t think that the WPI arms can be considered in this limited tradition as it does not use any of them. Rather I would say that its in the much greater tradition of heraldically illiterate logos put on a shield.
The fact that the arm and hammer is placed below the chief line in one depiction and extending into the chief in the other also suggests that there is little real knowledge of heraldry being applied. I don’t think anything can be deduced from the placement of the motto except that it was the most obvious place/space to put it given their use of a shield within a circle
In the MacLoughlin arms you illustrate I don’t think that there is a chief, rather the arms are tierced (per fess and in chief per pale) and they use three of the Irish versions of the "totems". I would blazon it as
Tierced per fess and in chief per pale 1st Argent three hands Gules 2nd Argent a lion rampant Gules 3rd Wavy Azure and Argent a (badly drawn) salmon naiant Proper
James
James,
Thanks for the article.
You make a great case. I just wanted to make sure I hadn’t overlooked some practice I wasn’t aware of (as there are many).
