NOT a Supporter

 
llnyny
 
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llnyny
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27 April 2010 15:40
 

In working with a commission that includes a Banner above the full achievement, we’ve run into a quandary and I’m hoping you can help us sort it out.

The Banner does not work over the achievement unless the emblazonment is far too long. So I’m wondering about other ways to include the Banner.

 

What if the Banner is put to the Dexter side with a charge from the Shield upon a Grounding? Does that become a Supporter? What if it is facing away from the shield and is separated by the mantling so as not to "support" the Shield?

What about if it is added to both sides of the achievement for balance?

 

Any advice? (I know you have some, so out with it!) grin

 
James Dempster
 
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James Dempster
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27 April 2010 16:23
 

A few ideas:

The armiger bearing the arms and banner

 

http://diglit.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglitData/image/cpg848/1/184v.jpg

 

or "parked" whilst he says his farewells

 

http://diglit.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglitData/image/cpg848/1/054r.jpg

 

or being presented to him in the manner that this armiger is receiving his helm

 

http://diglit.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglitData/image/cpg848/1/082v.jpg

 

James

 
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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27 April 2010 19:03
 

It may make a few wonder if you have whatever creature as a supporter, but if you use a popinjay or griffin it should look clear with the arms right next to it that it is merely use of the beasts from your arms.

I would suggest adding the cross in one hand to the griffin, if you decide to use a griffin.  I would also suggest adding a mound, and to make it un-compartment-like, I would suggest adding a tree or bush or miniaturized building so it appears more an artistic scene or landscape than anything else.

 

http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=50&pictureid=707

 
llnyny
 
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llnyny
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27 April 2010 19:43
 

I like that doodle, Alexander. It’s quite nice!

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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28 April 2010 11:00
 

in my not so humble opinion it is not a supporter. supporters support the shield or shield and helm or shield and helm and whatever little gadgets are thrown behind the shield.

look at the masterful work of artists like Foppoli for example where a tenant is situated around the shield, as in the examples above, or for a bearer of a standard or banner. if this is situated with a banner it is clearly not a supporter…well…clearly to me anyway.

 
Peter Harling
 
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Peter Harling
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29 April 2010 14:18
 

Lee, I’m surprised that placing your banner above your arms; as is the usual custom in Scottish achievements; has not been successful! How big is the banner to be?

Regards ...................  Peter

 
llnyny
 
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llnyny
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15 June 2010 22:44
 

Quote:

Lee, I’m surprised that placing your banner above your arms; as is the usual custom in Scottish achievements; has not been successful! How big is the banner to be?


I have also seen some grants from the Chief Herald of Ireland with the banner in the same manner. But to answer your question, Peter, I don’t really know. It’s just an emblazonment. Anyone in England is entitled to a Banner, as opposed to a Standard, and the HA created this achievement for me. I rather like it even though my heritage is English. Perhaps we can make it an American thing too? wink

 

When looking to St. George’s Chapel Windsor, there are the Banners of the Knights of the Garter. It as a really just a take off on that idea.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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15 June 2010 22:48
 

No, a figure holding the banner doesn’t become a supporter—supporters support the shield.  And do as you please with the shape and arrangement of the banner.  Ignore the lately invented "rules" with which people try to ensnare heraldry, like the Liliputians tying down Gulliver by his hair.

There are rules that matter and there are "rules" that don’t.

 
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