death of child hatchment question

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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16 May 2010 11:25
 

have a question ...

if a child dies would that child use just the arms, or the arms and crest, of his father in a funeral hatchment?

 
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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16 May 2010 14:35
 

An unfortunate question, but from what I understand a male child should be able to display the crest as well.  There is no requirement that the crest need be painted, though, and if preferred that there would be a shield only it would be acceptable.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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17 May 2010 00:40
 

i figured as much. of course it is all a matter of tradition i suppose rather than law. and in this case my example is one who would not have reached an age where he would have obtained a COA of his own.

 
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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17 May 2010 01:13
 

An heraldic achievement are a person’s by right of birth, with due difference where required by law.  So the boy’s arms always were his, and always existed in theory even without an actual physical rendition being created.

The Royal Family of Britain takes a bit longer, usually after the age of 16, to set their cadency because they have no system for the Royal Family like the nobles and commoners do.  It is not law that they wait so long and not quite custom, either; it is more out of utility and personalisation, the custom being to allow each Royal to mark his arms with something truly identifiable with him.  After all, an infant or a boy would choose something very infantile or childish like a teddy bear or baseball as a mark of difference, where a more mature youth would be able to pick something more lasting to his self identity.  This practice should not be mistaken with a notion that arms are not a boy’s from birth.

 

I would assume this is concerning an American child, where we have no set system either.  If the family does not care about cadency, use the family’s arms unmarked.  If they are, use either the British system if nothing can easily be decided, or choose something the family would identify with their child.

 
Michael Y. Medvedev
 
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Michael Y. Medvedev
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20 May 2010 06:19
 

As the armiger enters the eternal glory (so I do presume), there are all reasons to display his or her arms in all splendor. Whoever are the real persons behind the question, may I express my cordial sympathy and condolences.

It may sound damned cynical, but for an infant girl’s achievement, a true lover’s knot made of a diaper, or a tiny lozenge on a big garland, come to mind. For a boy, some particular form of a mantling could be used, depending on his age and his preferences, if he had time to evince some.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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21 May 2010 11:57
 

thanks Michael. no you’re not presuming, you’re assured of God’s Grace, as i too place my trust in the Lord’s Mercy for Taylor, so that’s good. you’re a good brother in Christ Michael and a good friend. thanks.

this is prompted for two reasons. 1, i’ve often wondered about the sons who die like this; and, 2, because my brother and wife just lost their son Taylor while in utero (sp?). she still had to give birth and Taylor was delivered last Saturday.

 

now my brother has adopted a coat of arms, but chose for his crest something i’m not sure is appropriate for a son who died in the womb (A dexter cubit arm in armor Proper, trimmed Or, the hand grasping a maille Proper, ref: http://usheraldicregistry.com/index.php?n=Registrations.20070626B ), but obviously was not old enough to have shown an interest in his own crest. so, the idea of just having the father’s arms and crest used for him came to mind. the problem there is that wouldn’t that allude to my brother too for those who wouldn’t know? (we follow the tradition of no difference on arms, but each person choosing their own crest).

 

so…...this makes things more complicate for me to grasp. i’m leaning towards putting a label of difference on the arms and crest, but with it being a black label…...or perhaps just the shield and Taylor’s name on the hatchment…..i dunno though. i wish i could think of a better idea to be honest.

 

thanks for the ideas all.

 

P.S. with my own daughter it was simply a matter of placing a true lover’s knot on top, so it was easier.

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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21 May 2010 12:59
 

Denny,

You could leave the crest off and fill that space with the dove of the Holy Spirit descending or perhaps an angel looking down on the arms. Just a thought.

 
 
Dohrman Byers
 
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Dohrman Byers
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21 May 2010 15:52
 

The black label on a funerary hatchment seems a little too grim.

I like Kenneth’s idea of the shield without crest with and angel/cherub looking down. Another pssibility might be the shield alone with some arrangement of Easter lilies, expressing the hope of resurrection.

 
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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21 May 2010 19:54
 

Since it is your family’s custom to adopt a unique crest, perhaps forgoing the crest altogether would be the best idea.

I like the idea of using an angel holding the shield, with a scroll about the shield either with your motto, phrase of Bible passage that you and your family may hold particularly dear.

 

I am sorry to hear that family has suffered such a loss.  My condolences to you, your brother and particularly your brother’s wife.

http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=50&pictureid=719

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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23 May 2010 08:12
 

thanks guys. good ideas. will get to work on it when i can pick up a pencil again.

thanks Alexander. been a tough week. my younger brother is a big fella and the kind who prefers to pray quietly. but, when my sister-in-law was rushed to the O.R. for emergency surgery after delivering Taylor because she was hemoraging (sp?) badly (lost 2500 ML of hemogloben (sp?) and crit (sp?) was down to 7—on death’s door thank God we had a priest there for her) he just came to me asked for some beads, went and fell into a chair and began to pray fervently and, frankly, began to cry when the docs came back and said they had stopped the bleeding and she would survive. never seen him so humbled…meek…small. not that he is the loud one (i am) but i’m just not used to seeing him like that. shook me. tough couple of weeks loosing Taylor and then almost my sister-in-law, so i appreciate the thoughts Alexander.