Hypothetical arms for J.B. Mansfield

 
Joseph McMillan
 
Avatar
 
 
Joseph McMillan
Total Posts:  7658
Joined  08-06-2004
 
 
 
02 July 2010 12:09
 

Kenneth Mansfield;77285 wrote:

I had seven direct and (found to date) 21 collateral ancestors who fought in the Confederate armies. Of the seven direct, four were at Gettysburg.


Also seven direct (five great-great and two great-great-great-grandfathers). Only one of those (Jesse M. McMillan) at Gettysburg, but his future very distant something-in-law John H. Story (3rd Alabama) would have been in the trenches at Vicksburg at the same time.

 

Kenneth’s numbers prompted me to look into my own collateral lines, although I haven’t gotten far. One thing that I knew but that this thread reminded me of was that four other young men who grew up in the same household with Jesse McMillan enlisted in the same company with him: his brothers James (who found a substitute to take his place before the regiment saw any serious fighting) and John, their half-brother William Breedlove (seriously wounded at the Wilderness), and their first cousin Elbert Taylor. Two other Taylor first cousins, both near neighbors, were also in the company, Company K of the 10th Alabama Infantry.

 

When I was first designing my arms, I contemplated a crest that alluded to John and Jesse, which I’ll try to remember to share this weekend when I can dig through my image files at home.

 

None of this particularly goes to bragging—they’re the ones who sacrificed, not me—or to reflecting a serious wish that the war had turned out differently (although I’m still as susceptible as any Southern kid to the musings of Faulkner’s Chick Mallison in Intruder in the Dust).* It really is more a reflection on the extent to which that war touched and to some extent still touches the area of the U.S. from which those of us quoting the numbers originate.

 

 

____________

* For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he wants it, there is the instant when it’s still not yet two o’clock on that July afternoon in 1863, the brigades are in position behind the rail fence, the guns are laid and ready in the woods and the furled flags are already loosened to break out and Pickett himself with his long oiled ringlets and his hat in one hand probably and his sword in the other looking up the hill waiting for Longstreet to give the word and it’s all in the balance, it hasn’t happened yet, it hasn’t even begun yet, it not only hasn’t begun yet but there is still time for it not to begin against that position and those circumstances which made more men than Garnett and Kemper and Armistead and Wilcox look grave yet it’s going to begin, we all know that, we have come too far with too much at stake and that moment doesn’t need even a fourteen-year-old boy to think This time. Maybe this time with all this much to lose and all this much to gain: Pennsylvania, Maryland, the world, the golden dome of Washington itself to crown with desperate and unbelievable victory the desperate gamble, the cast made two years ago…

 
Guy Power
 
Avatar
 
 
Guy Power
Total Posts:  1576
Joined  05-01-2006
 
 
 
02 July 2010 13:41
 

Kenneth Mansfield;77310 wrote:

Probably sufficiently unique for my purposes: Sable three Chevronnels between three Cinquefoils each pierced with a mullet Argent. [/CENTER]

I like it!  What would the design look like if you revered the chevronnels?  Chevrons were worn point downwards from 1817 until .... 1902.

In the Georgia Hussars certain officers wore 4 chevrons points up ... at least on their blue stable jacket!  I think that went away in 1861.  Note the chevrons on the "portrait" of Col. F. J. Waring in this color plate:

http://www.hsgng.org/images/hussars.jpg

 

The Hussars fought under both the First National Flag (7 stars), and the battle flag.  The blue flag in the above plate is described as the "Peace Standard" in 1st Lieut. Alexander McC. Duncan’s 1906 Roll and Legend of the Georgia Hussars.  The book can be found as a pdf (but with awful half-tone photos) at http://dlg.galileo.usg.edu/georgiabooks/pdfs/gb5065.pdf . The hardcopy has ca 1906 photos of the four flags the Hussars used (one, a battle flag with a chocolate field was used in 1871 as the "Savannah Sabre Club" club flag.  Unfortunately, that page is missing from the pdf.

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
Avatar
 
 
Kenneth Mansfield
Total Posts:  2518
Joined  04-06-2007
 
 
 
02 July 2010 13:46
 

Below are my direct ancestors who fought at Gettysburg with some quotes from a couple of the regimental monuments on the battlefield.

Robert A. Durham:  Pvt., Co. D (Orange Light Infantry), 1st Reg., North Carolina Volunteers (6 months); Cpl., Co. G (Guards of Independence), 28th Reg., North Carolina Infantry

Robert Durham was with the 28th NC at Gettysburg, which advanced just north of The Angle in Pickett’s Charge.

 

George W. Fowler:  Pvt., Co. B (Union Farmers), 43rd Reg., North Carolina Infantry

George Fowler was captured in the retreat from Gettysburg and marched to a prison camp near Philadelphia where he died of exhaustion.
Quote:

<div class=“bbcode_center” >
Forty-Third North Carolina Regiment

Daniel’s Brigade Rodes’s Division

Ewell’s Corps

Army of Northern Virginia

Thomas Stephen Kenan Colonel

William Gaston Lewis Lieutenant Colonel

Walter Jones Boggan Major
</div>


As they approached the field of battle on the morning of July 1, the 43rd North Carolina, along with the rest of Daniel’s Brigade, heard the distant booming of cannon. Early in the afternoon the regiment moved to the right and onto open ground where they were met by a furious fire. Their steady progress was checked by the deep railroad cut, but subsequent assaults were successful in breaking the Union line. Having suffered heavily, the regiment rested for the night west of town. The next morning the 43rd supported a battery just north of the Seminary. Shelling from guns on the nearby heights inflicted some losses. Toward evening the Regiment took up a position on the southern edge of town.

Before daybreak on July 3, the 43d moved to the extreme left of the Confederate line to take part in an assault on Culp’s Hill. Passing this point and advancing under heavy fire, they occupied earthworks abandoned by Union troops. Attempting to push beyond the works, the regiment was exposed to a most severe fire of canister, shrapnel and shell at short range. During the attack Col. Kenan was wounded and taken from the field and command passed to Lt. Col. Lewis. The Regiment retired to this point an remained exposed and under fire until ordered to recross Rock Creek in the early evening.


<div class=“bbcode_center” >
"All that men could do, was done nobly"

 

Erected by the State of North Carolina 1988

</div>


John N. Ivester:  Pvt., Co. E (Cobb’s Infantry), 16th Reg., Georgia Infantry

The 16th Georgia was engaged at the Peach Orchard.

Jefferson B. Mansfield:  Color Sgt., originally Co. E (Independent Guards), 26th Reg., North Carolina Infantry

J.B. Mansfield was wounded in the first day’s battle and captured sometime during the retreat, most likely when Union forces attempted to capture Lt. Col. Lane who was with the regiment’s hospital wagons.
monument at Meredith Avenue wrote:

<div class=“bbcode_center” >
Twenty-Sixth North Carolina Regiment

Pettigrew’s Brigade Heth’s Division, Hill’s Corps, Army of Northern Virginia.

Henry King Burgwyn, Jr. Colonel, John Thomas Jones Major, John Randolph Lane Lieutenant Colonel.
</div>


Pettigrew’s Brigade moved toward Gettysburg early on the morning of July 1 and shortly after noon deployed in line of battle on the ridge 60 yards west of here. The 26th North Carolina stood on the Brigade’s left flank, facing these woods and the 24th Michigan of Meredith’s Iron Brigade. The order to advance was made about 2:30 p.m. On nearing Willoughby Run the Regiment received a galling fire from the opposite bank. By Maj. Jones account the "fighting was terrible" with the forces "pouring volleys into each other at a distance not greater than 20 paces." After about an hour the Regiment had incurred very heavy losses, Col. Burgwyn had been mortally wounded and Lt. Col. Lane injured. The attack continued until the Union troops fell back through the streets of Gettysburg and took up positions south of town.

On July 9 Brigadier General James Johnston Pettigrew wrote that the Regiment had "Covered itself with glory… It fell to the lot of the 26th to charge one of the strongest positions possible… with a gallantry unsurpassed." Addressing his remarks to Zebulon Baird Vance, who had served as Colonel of the 26th until his election as Governor in August 1862, Pettigrew concluded that "Your old comrades did honor to your association with them, and to the state they represented. Erected by the State of North Carolina 1985.

monument at The Angle wrote:

<div class=“bbcode_center” >
Twenty-Sixth

North Carolina Regiment

Pettigrew’s Brigade Heth’s Division,

Hill’s Corps, Army of Northern Virginia
</div>


Although nearly destroyed during its successful attack against Meredith’s Iron Brigade on July 1, the Twenty-Sixth North Carolina Regiment joined in the Petigrew-Pickett Charge on the afternoon of July 3. Advancing under solid shot, spherical case, canister, and musketry the Regiment charge to within ten paces of the stone wall to their front.

The scene was described by an artilleryman of a Rhode Island battery: ". . . As a regiment of Pettigrew’s Brigade (the Twenty-Sixth North Carolina) was charging. . .and had almost reached the wall in front of us, Sergt. M.C.Onley cried out. . .‘Fire that gun! Pull! Pull!’ the No. 4 obeyed orders and the gap made in that North Carolina regiment was simply terrible." Under this galling fire, the Twenty-Sixth North Carolina was compelled to retire with the Brigade from this point to Seminary Ridge."

 

The men of the Twenty-Sixth Regiment would dress their colors in spite of the world. Erected by the State of North Carolina 1986

From www.gettysburg.stonesentinels.com regarding the 26NC marker at the angle:

The regiment was commanded by Colonel Henry K. Burgwyn, Jr. until he was killed in the fighting on July 1. Captain H.C. Albright then took command.

The 26th brought 800 men to the field, with 588 becoming casualties during the fighting on July 1st. The colors had been shot down fourteen times, Company E was left with twelve men, all but two lightly wounded, and Company F was left with a single sergeant, Robert Hudspeth.

 

During the charge on July 3rd an additional 99 men were lost, with eight more color bearers killed or wounded. Sgt. Hudspeth and the handful of rejoined detached men of Company F he had managed to scrape together all became casualties.

 

The information from the marker may not be accurate; the 26th may not have been in front of Onley’s gun, but rather some ways to the north, in front of the 12th New Jersey. The 26th’s final color bearer of the day, accompanied by a sergeant, carried the 26th’s colors up the slope to the stone wall defended by the Jerseymen, who in respect for their courage held their fire and helped them to safety over the wall.

 

Since then a dispute has raged between partisans of North Carolina and Virginia over whose charge went furthest on July 3rd. There will probably never be an answer to that, if one is really needed. But one thing is clear - no regiment on either side at Gettysburg suffered more casualties than the 26th North Carolina.

 
 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
Avatar
 
 
Kenneth Mansfield
Total Posts:  2518
Joined  04-06-2007
 
 
 
02 July 2010 13:58
 

Guy Power;77313 wrote:

I like it!  What would the design look like if you revered the chevronnels?  Chevrons were worn point downwards from 1817 until .... 1902.


This could work. It would allude to his position as color sergeant (even if that convention wasn’t yet established).


<div class=“bbcode_center” >
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1138/mansfieldjb5.png
</div>

 

 
 
Guy Power
 
Avatar
 
 
Guy Power
Total Posts:  1576
Joined  05-01-2006
 
 
 
02 July 2010 14:14
 

From my file—Flags of the Georgia Hussars:

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4137/gahus.th.jpg

1894 1st. Lieut.  Note two chevrons points downwards:

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3494/ggaillard.th.jpg

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

1903 2nd. Lieut.  Note the three chevrons point downwards.  (hmmmmm)

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1861/edemere.th.jpg

Anyway ... an officer, yet wearing chevrons.

 

Hmmmmmm .... Icing on the cake (of another thread… sorry)

Society of Cincinnati member John Berrien; Captain in 1786

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7008/jberrien.th.jpg

 
Charles E. Drake
 
Avatar
 
 
Charles E. Drake
Total Posts:  553
Joined  27-05-2006
 
 
 
02 July 2010 14:47
 

Charles Glass;77301 wrote:

Upon arriving home, he saw his wife doing the wash at the creek and decided to surprise her.  He laid his gun against the fencepost, and as he was sneaking up behind her, the gun fell, discharged, killing him on the spot.


That strikes me as possibly apocryphal. Is there any contemporary documentation of this?

My gr-grandfather carried a flint-lock that had been converted into a cap-lock in the War Between the States. Those things are hard enough to get to shoot when you are trying.


Quote:

As I began putting the family history together, I noticed that his death date was before the war ended, not after it was over, so I checked into his service record and found that he had deserted!  I love that bit of irony, and this is my favorite story to share with fellow genealogists.


That may not be as bad as it sounds. From the surviving correspondence of some of my ancestors and their relations, it appears their ideas of military discipline were more relaxed than today. There are several instances of some of them just going A.W.O.L. to visit family or take someone who was sick back home, being tried for desertion, forgiven, and taken back into their units. Since they volunteered to be there, I think they believed that they could leave if they wanted to!

 
Guy Power
 
Avatar
 
 
Guy Power
Total Posts:  1576
Joined  05-01-2006
 
 
 
02 July 2010 14:58
Kenneth Mansfield
 
Avatar
 
 
Kenneth Mansfield
Total Posts:  2518
Joined  04-06-2007
 
 
 
02 July 2010 15:24
 

Guy Power;77321 wrote:

Don Troiani’s "Steady On the Colours"

http://www.pf-militarygallery.com/images/troiani/Steady-on-the-Colors-6x4.jpg


My g-g-grandfather would have already been wounded by this point. You can see by the corporal’s stripes that the man holding the flag is one of the color guard and not the color sergeant.

 
 
Joseph McMillan
 
Avatar
 
 
Joseph McMillan
Total Posts:  7658
Joined  08-06-2004
 
 
 
02 July 2010 15:24
 

Charles E. Drake;77320 wrote:

That may not be as bad as it sounds. From the surviving correspondence of some of my ancestors and their relations, it appears their ideas of military discipline were more relaxed than today. There are several instances of some of them just going A.W.O.L. to visit family or take someone who was sick back home, being tried for desertion, forgiven, and taken back into their units. Since they volunteered to be there, I think they believed that they could leave if they wanted to!


There are also examples, especially from the second half of 1864 onward, of soldiers from the Deep South who had valid home leave from units in Virginia and found themselves unable to return to duty after Sherman’s march to the sea.  In many cases, these "deserters" then enlisted with other units operating near their homes.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
Avatar
 
 
Joseph McMillan
Total Posts:  7658
Joined  08-06-2004
 
 
 
02 July 2010 18:04
 

Joseph McMillan;77311 wrote:

When I was first designing my arms, I contemplated a crest that alluded to John and Jesse, which I’ll try to remember to share this weekend when I can dig through my image files at home.


http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/heraldry/bayonet crest.gif

 

(I also did one shamelessly ripping off the badge of the squadron my father commanded in Vietnam in 1967-68 )

 

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/heraldry/woolybooger crest.gif

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
Avatar
 
 
Kenneth Mansfield
Total Posts:  2518
Joined  04-06-2007
 
 
 
02 July 2010 18:20
 

Joseph McMillan;77325 wrote:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/heraldry/bayonet crest.gif


This is fantastic, Joe, and would have been a fitting tribute. You really need to figure out a way to use this!

 
 
Joseph McMillan
 
Avatar
 
 
Joseph McMillan
Total Posts:  7658
Joined  08-06-2004
 
 
 
02 July 2010 19:33
 

Guy Power;77313 wrote:

In the Georgia Hussars certain officers wore 4 chevrons points up ... at least on their blue stable jacket! I think that went away in 1861.


It may be worth noting that cadet officers at West Point, VMI, and the Citadel still wear rank chevrons on dress grays—cadet lieutenants wear three and cadet captains from four to six depending on the cadet’s position in the brigade.

 
Guy Power
 
Avatar
 
 
Guy Power
Total Posts:  1576
Joined  05-01-2006
 
 
 
02 July 2010 23:20
 

Joseph McMillan;77329 wrote:

It may be worth noting that cadet officers at West Point, VMI, and the Citadel still wear rank chevrons on dress grays—cadet lieutenants wear three and cadet captains from four to six depending on the cadet’s position in the brigade.


Good point, Joe—I completely forgot that.

 

Then:

http://www.printsoldandrare.com/westpoint/021point.jpg

 

Today:

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/E008290.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=91F5CCEF208281FD6874B28B5F1B091801CBE3F06113680B81443EEB8397F731

Though ... you’d think they could afford more chinstraps and get rid of the nose & lip-straps

 
Joseph McMillan
 
Avatar
 
 
Joseph McMillan
Total Posts:  7658
Joined  08-06-2004
 
 
 
03 July 2010 00:08
 

Kenneth Mansfield;77314 wrote:

Since then a dispute has raged between partisans of North Carolina and Virginia over whose charge went furthest on July 3rd.


An argument over nothing—Wilcox’s (Alabama) and Perry’s (Florida) Brigades went further up the ridge on the July 2 than anyone did on July 3.  Or so the Alabama soldiers maintained until their dying days.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
Avatar
 
 
Michael F. McCartney
Total Posts:  3535
Joined  24-05-2004
 
 
 
04 July 2010 01:41
 

JD mused, "I like the arms, but I’ve never been comfortable with crests that consist of arms embowed bearing something. They always appear to me to be the last hurrah of someone sinking into the mire."

At the risk of reigniting a long-dead conflict—but given the outcome of the war, the image James suggests seems ironically appropriate.  (I’ll now quietly slink out of the room, or at least out of range…)