My arms design, for comments

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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31 July 2010 11:58
 

Patrick Williams;78065 wrote:

... Washington’s real ancestors (if he has any).


Patrick,

 

What are you suggesting?  I knew Washington was at least a demi-god, but that implies ancestors on at least one side of the family!

 

(He doesn’t have any direct descendants, which I imagine is what you mean, but there are plenty of collateral descendants from his ancestors who bore the Washington arms.)

 

wink

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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31 July 2010 12:45
 

Joseph McMillan;78070 wrote:

Patrick,

What are you suggesting?  I knew Washington was at least a demi-god, but that implies ancestors on at least one side of the family!

 

(He doesn’t have any direct descendants, which I imagine is what you mean, but there are plenty of collateral descendants from his ancestors who bore the Washington arms.)

 

wink

 


Ooops, of course I meant descendants. lolol

 
Benjamin Thornton
 
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Benjamin Thornton
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01 August 2010 21:09
 

Steven,

I can only imagine that it might be disconcerting to have your designs redesigned so often and so dramatically.

 

Obviously the choice is yours, but I for one wouldn’t mind hearing from you here on the forum when you’ve made your final call.

 
steven harris
 
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steven harris
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02 August 2010 11:21
 

Firstly, I offer my apologies for inadvertently dancing so close to the forum rules – that was not my intent.

Secondly, I have no problem accept critiques, since that was the purpose of my posting my arms here in the first place, as long as they are well meaning – which all posted here have been.

 

My time at VMI was very formative for me, as I suspect that it was designed to be (“There is no need to suppose that human beings differ very much one from another; but it is true that the ones who come out on top are the ones who have been trained in the hardest school.”  ~Thucydides, The History of the Peloponnesian War I:84).  In addition to discovering myself while I was there, I also met many life-long friends, not the least of whom would become my wife.  It therefore seemed only appropriate that I nod to VMI in my arms, and the ten New Market cadets offered themselves as a logical choice.  However, as witnessed here, I have been completely unable to work in my broken chevron with even a modicum of success (measured by my liking it and it not being unanimously panned by others).  A while back I was offered advice, reiterated by others since, that the homage to VMI be moved off the shield and into my crest.  At first I discounted this as something that I wanted to avoid, but it seems as thought it may now be an option.

 

I appreciate everyone’s input thus far.  Although it is a bit discouraging to have what-I-hoped-would-be my final design meet such criticism; I take it in stride as I journey towards the destination that will be my arms.  That being said, I’d like to get this project wrapped up sooner rather than latter.  I moved slowly at first as my basic heraldic knowledge increased, but at this point, I’m ready to have it finalized.

 

I’m hesitant for the quartered background with the rings in white/silver.  I would like to try to keep them black-on-white if at all possible.  Would the design be more concise and cohesive as: Argent within a Bordure quarterly Azure and Gules three Annulets interlaced two over on Sable?  Also, would the proper blazon have “within a Bordure quarterly Azure and Gules” before or after the “three Annulets interlaced two over on Sable”?

 

To heed our former moderator’s warning, this thread should probably be closed and all further discussion continued by private messaging.  Thanks.

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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02 August 2010 12:46
 

As the former moderator who posted the warning, allow me to say that you, Steve, were not the target. You have merely asked an opinion of your arms, it was our other members who were jumping at the design game (I jumped too, but offline). We love the design game here, and it’s all too difficult to restrain ourselves, but in the public fora, restrain ourselves we must. So it is not you who have been dancing too closely.

I’ll send you another off-line message responding to the questions you’ve posted in this last message.

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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02 August 2010 13:35
 

While I admit that offering alternatives to what Steven has shown us is a violation of the rules of this forum, it is certainly not a violation of either the spirit of letter of the rule to point out that the escutcheon looks like an augmentation or that the bordure seems to indicate an indeterminate cadet of the main shield in the Scottish tradition, of which Steven has expressed a desire to emulate. Those are criticisms and do not fall under the category of design assistance. To the best of my knowledge, help with blazoning has never been a violation of forum rules to work out and, given that that is the only question I see in Steven’s last post, I’ll answer here.

Argent three Annulets interlaced two over one Sable all within a Bordure quarterly Azure and Gules.

 
 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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02 August 2010 15:09
 

Indeed, Kenneth, you are correct.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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03 August 2010 01:37
 

steven harris;78104 wrote:

Firstly, I offer my apologies for inadvertently dancing so close to the forum rules – that was not my intent.

Secondly, I have no problem accept critiques, since that was the purpose of my posting my arms here in the first place, as long as they are well meaning – which all posted here have been.

 

My time at VMI was very formative for me, as I suspect that it was designed to be (“There is no need to suppose that human beings differ very much one from another; but it is true that the ones who come out on top are the ones who have been trained in the hardest school.”  ~Thucydides, The History of the Peloponnesian War I:84).  In addition to discovering myself while I was there, I also met many life-long friends, not the least of whom would become my wife.  It therefore seemed only appropriate that I nod to VMI in my arms, and the ten New Market cadets offered themselves as a logical choice.  However, as witnessed here, I have been completely unable to work in my broken chevron with even a modicum of success (measured by my liking it and it not being unanimously panned by others).  A while back I was offered advice, reiterated by others since, that the homage to VMI be moved off the shield and into my crest.  At first I discounted this as something that I wanted to avoid, but it seems as thought it may now be an option.

 

I appreciate everyone’s input thus far.  Although it is a bit discouraging to have what-I-hoped-would-be my final design meet such criticism; I take it in stride as I journey towards the destination that will be my arms.  That being said, I’d like to get this project wrapped up sooner rather than latter.  I moved slowly at first as my basic heraldic knowledge increased, but at this point, I’m ready to have it finalized.

 

I’m hesitant for the quartered background with the rings in white/silver.  I would like to try to keep them black-on-white if at all possible.  Would the design be more concise and cohesive as: Argent within a Bordure quarterly Azure and Gules three Annulets interlaced two over on Sable?  Also, would the proper blazon have “within a Bordure quarterly Azure and Gules” before or after the “three Annulets interlaced two over on Sable”?

 

To heed our former moderator’s warning, this thread should probably be closed and all further discussion continued by private messaging.  Thanks.


i wouldn’t get discouraged. many of us went through multiple versions of our arms before we settled on the design. some of us have posted them. so, i wouldn’t get discouraged. just think of this thread as the "e" version of the fridge test. smile

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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03 August 2010 01:59
 

am i missing something? i re-read the posts and…unless i’m missing something, which i may be…the posts were fairly basic in a general sense even though directed at Steve. maybe i’m readin them wrong.

but, i think in this case there is great opportunity for design education—especially for newbies that may be lurking—without violating the design clause for a specific piece. for example, i won’t tell Steve what colors he had to use or what charges. only that, imo, one & one is usually best and less is usually more etc. i’m not so sure that is an actual violation of the rules. then again…i may simply not understand them as well as i thought i did in which case i’m wrong…wouldn’t be first time. smile

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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03 August 2010 09:13
 

Denny, I’ve replied to you by pm. If anyone else is confused about the design advice thing, please contact me in pm and I’ll be glad to discuss it with you.

 
Benjamin Thornton
 
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Benjamin Thornton
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03 August 2010 09:58
 

I’ve shared my frustration at these good design discussions getting disrupted/redirected before (see this thread, or don’t - it’s up to you)

I understand the rules - they are pretty clear, and the members and moderators generally interpret them fairly and generously.  But nobody has satisfactorily explained the Society’s intention behind putting a paywall before non-member forum users who want to use their own time and effort to assist newcomers with their designs, and at the same time denying newcomers that broader body of design consultation.

 

This is an entirely different issue than asking a newcomer to pay to access the forum’s expertise at designing arms.

 

I have no objection to continuing this conversation in private, and if anyone else has a similar question, let’s try to share the ultimate answers.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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03 August 2010 12:05
 

i got it Patrick. i still don’t see what you’re saying. so, that must be my error. thanks for trying. i appreciate it.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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04 August 2010 21:58
 

One (for me at least) practical difficulty in observing the rule is that I access through "new messages" and usually have no idea whether I’m in a public or private area—I just read, enjoy the pretty pictures & sometimes respond. (OK, sometimes pontificate)

No conscious intent to flaunt the rule—though I’m no great fan, I respect the Society’s right to run its own house as it sees fit—I just don’t usually recognize which room of that house I’m wandering around in at any given time.

 

Is computer dyslexia a handicap that merits "reasonable accommodation"??  smile

 
Patrick Williams
 
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Patrick Williams
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05 August 2010 08:49
 

Michael F. McCartney;78180 wrote:

Is computer dyslexia a handicap that merits "reasonable accommodation"??  smile


Lololol!!! Now, can we get back to Steven’s arms?

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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06 August 2010 15:50
 

At the risk of (again) stepping over the line, IMO his original design—minus the (IMO inappropriate, & artictically out-of-place) inescutcheon—was & is just fine!