In Steven Harris’s recent thread regarding his near-finalization of his arms, he mentions having both a motto and slogan. I know Denny has this in his achievement and so thought it more of an Irish thing. Don’t many Scots use this battle cry in place of a motto? Anyway, I thought I might take a stab at putting an historical battle cry relating to my ancestors in my arms. Joe, have I got this right?
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Kenneth Mansfield;78302 wrote:
Anyway, I thought I might take a stab at putting an historical battle cry relating to my ancestors in my arms. Joe, have I got this right?
Well, since the Yanks were known to have said it couldn’t be described in words, this is probably just as close as anything else. I think in Alabama we probably pronounced it with a syllable consisting mainly of EEEEEEE…, but of course regional variation is always especially strong in the vowels.
so…forgive my ignorance, but what does it mean? historically speaking? was this the cry a specific unit, etc said when charging? what’s the context? i would love to learn as these things fascinate me. 
as to cri-de-guerre (sp?) i know that the Scots have them as well as mottoes. i’ve seen a number of examples at HSS when i used to visit there. and if i’m not mistaken i’ve read that they use, or can use, both. it is probably more common in Scottish heraldry than Irish (despite the hybrid, or eclectic, nature of Irish heraldry and despite the resistance to anything English [in appearance only mind you] Irish heraldry leans towards the Anglo-centric side of the dial) though it is found there, which is why i use it of course.
Donnchadh;78305 wrote:
so…forgive my ignorance, but what does it mean? historically speaking? was this the cry a specific unit, etc said when charging? what’s the context? i would love to learn as these things fascinate me.
now that’s cool. thanks Joe.
i think that would be a great war cry for a descendant of a Civil War vet!
Donnchadh;78309 wrote:
now that’s cool. thanks Joe.
i think that would be a great war cry for a descendant of a Civil War vet!
Joe,
Thanks for that interesting Wiki link. After watching the youtube video referenced at the bottom of the page, I found this other recording made in 1936: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssLMroT2euQ&feature=related
This version sounds more realistic & frightening.
It, too, was digitally reproduced to replicate a battalion giving the Rebel Yell—sort of a "Confederate Banzai" attack. Although a youtube video .... there’s only audio.
—Guy
Keep in mind that 1935 was 70 years after the end of the war, meaning that anyone old enough to have served would have been in his late 80s or older when these recordings were made. Taking into account that these guys were a tough lot, it’s unlikely that they could shriek as impressively at 88 as they could at 18.
All this is truly nice - but a slogan is rather presumed to be particular for the armiger or the family/branch headed by him.
Michael Y. Medvedev;78458 wrote:
All this is truly nice - but a slogan is rather presumed to be particular for the armiger or the family/branch headed by him.
not sure what you mean. a motto in the anglophile sense is not required and can change at a moments notice. it is more regulated in scotland and ireland. a war-cry, or cri-de-guerre (sp?) is different from a motto. many great irish war cries are now part and parcel of family associations and clan associations etc. it seems the same in scotland.
so i’m confused by what you mean above. sorry i’m having a dense moment my friend.
Jokes are a lot less fun if you have to explain them, but Kenneth was joking (I think…certainty is also a lot less fun than uncertainty) about using as a war cry/slogan the "Rebel yell" for which his ancestors and mine* were known during the Recent Unpleasantness (also known as the American Civil War, War Between the States, War of Southern Independence, War of the Rebellion, War of Northern Aggression, take your pick).
Michael’s point is that the Rebel yell is not a war cry (or cri de guerre, for those who insist on calling green "vert") in the sense that term is typically used in heraldry. It is not specific to the house of the person bearing the arms—like "Crom a boo," or "A Hay! A Hay!", or "Montjoie-St. Denis." He’s not saying anyone has to have a slogan, or a motto either, for that matter. But then Kenneth knew that when he made his original tongue-in-cheek post.
________
* And others’.
Dear Dennis, Joseph already said it all.
Thank you for this comment, Joseph. Of course my own remark was addressed not to Kenneth or yourself, I just supposed that somebody may take it for serious and wished to add a little boring clarification to the thread. Sorry if I spoiled a good joke
Joe wrote, "the Recent Unpleasantness (also known as the American Civil War, War Between the States, War of Southern Independence, War of the Rebellion, War of Northern Aggression, take your pick)."
How about "...the coming of the Lord" ? as in "Mine eyes have seen the glory…"
The difference between a motto and a war cry is in my view that the former is for ther armiger and another expression of "this is who I/we are" while the war cry is for the benefit of others - to inspire the followers and to bring terror to the enemy by recalling something of the greatness of the armiger and his lineage.
Polish war cries often recall the illustrious founder of a lineage or some event that spoke to the courage of ancestors or some general virtue derived from the past. In Polish the war cry is often used as one of the proclamation names of the arms. War cries can’t arise except through a reference to some history. Mottoes can be more intentional.
I recognize that motties have in the English tradition where war cries are rarer also recalled some historic events.
George Lucki;78952 wrote:
The difference between a motto and a war cry is in my view that the former is for ther armiger and another expression of "this is who I/we are" while the war cry is for the benefit of others - to inspire the followers and to bring terror to the enemy by recalling something of the greatness of the armiger and his lineage.
Polish war cries often recall the illustrious founder of a lineage or some event that spoke to the courage of ancestors or some general virtue derived from the past. In Polish the war cry is often used as one of the proclamation names of the arms. War cries can’t arise except through a reference to some history. Mottoes can be more intentional.
I recognize that motties have in the English tradition where war cries are rarer also recalled some historic events.
agreed.
Some historians believe that the battle cry in our Slavic tradition was primarily superior to the coat of arms.In the old times the ruler or a leader of a clan would send a horsemen (with a bunch of twigs of the wipping willow tree in hand-what was called in Polish language -wici ) to his clan members to warn them about an approaching danger and with order to get ready for a battle.The battle cry -zawołanie (from latin -proclamatio ,clamare=to shout) was a verbal command or a name sometimes originating in ethnic provenience of clan - like my PRUS or Mr Lucki’s - SAS
In fact , in all 116 oldest Polish coats of arms slogans are present since medieval times.Some were later forgotten and their use became less significant and verbal way of communication in the battlefield gave a way to clearer and more effective way of recognition by individual coats of arms put on display.
