New Design and Rules?

 
Claybear
 
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Claybear
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Joined  11-09-2010
 
 
 
17 September 2010 12:42
 

I would like to create a Design for my family and possibly register it someday.  I don’t know if there are any rules to the designs?  I have several rough drafts and would like some help on any changes I have to make or suggestions on things I might consider making.  Please help!

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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17 September 2010 13:08
 

Michael, welcome to the forum.  There is a rule in place, rightly or wrongly, that design "assistance" is to take place in the Members’ section of the forum, which would require that you join our Society. I am not sure why this rule is in place as education is one of our objectives as an organization, but it is there nonetheless. If you would like to post your sketches, we can critique them. There may be some obvious things that we might point out that do not technically cross the line of "design assistance". There are those (me included) who will wade across the line and there are others who will wave their arms in protest at this first suggestion.

Of course, as Treasurer of the Society, I would encourage you to join anyway. It’s a very good group of folks and the fee is very modest.

 
 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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17 September 2010 13:12
 

second Kenneth’s words and welcome.

also use the many wonderful books on the subject to help you in your designs as well. we have a section on recommended books for heraldry enthusiasts somewhere on this site iirc. again welcome.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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17 September 2010 14:23
 

Kenneth Mansfield;79081 wrote:

Michael, welcome to the forum. There is a rule in place, rightly or wrongly, that design "assistance" is to take place in the Members’ section of the forum, which would require that you join our Society. I am not sure why this rule is in place as education is one of our objectives as an organization, but it is there nonetheless. If you would like to post your sketches, we can critique them. There may be some obvious things that we might point out that do not technically cross the line of "design assistance". There are those (me included) who will wade across the line and there are others who will wave their arms in protest at this first suggestion.

Of course, as Treasurer of the Society, I would encourage you to join anyway. It’s a very good group of folks and the fee is very modest.


And of course those who want to get engaged in design can do so without joining the society by making use of the personal messaging facility that comes with forum participation.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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17 September 2010 17:51
 

Michael—such a nice name! smile

Just a few general observation, well short (I think) or crossing the line—

 

assuming that what you have in mind is a coat of arms for your family, you might start with some basic info re: heraldry.  There are likely any number of on-line primers (I think there is one on our homepage) you could do worse than starting with whatever might be in your local library.  Most encyclopedias have an entry for "Heraldry" which is as good a place to start as any—but if possible, look in several encyclopedias for a broader range of perspectives,  You will find, even in tghe hallowed halls of our forum, a variety of historica (or even hysterical!) traditions & approaches, personal beliefs & etc.  Take it all with a dose of salt!—as the saying goes, "it ain’t necessarily so."

 

You should get a basic feel for the basic elements of heraldic design, though limited in each encyclopedia or book by the author;s experience & mindset.  You will also likely see a variety of views about who has the right to grant or assume arms—for that, see the "Guidelines" linked to our home page for the Society’s collective wisdom on that topic.

 

As a caveat, you might want to steer clear of commercial firms who offer to provide "your family name arms" or other similar formulas—they usually just send (sell) you an early coat of arms born somewhere by someone with the same or similar surname.  For serious design purposes, not the wisest use of your money (read this as broadly as you can).

 

Then, before you start seriously focusing on various possible designs, give some serious thought to who you want these arms to represent.  If its just you, then you will of course limit your thinking to what might be meaningful to you—& the arms will be of little or no interest to siblings, cousins, etc.  On the other hand, if you want a design to represent your extended family, you won’t want to use designs that will be meaningful only to you.  (My choice of wording will reveal my own preference, but you’re free to take either approach—just be clear what you’re after and be prepared to abide by that preference as you start playing with possibilities.)

 

That will have to be enough for now—my grandson wants his laptop back!

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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21 September 2010 02:56
 

Kenneth Mansfield;79081 wrote:

I am not sure why this rule is in place as education is one of our objectives as an organization, but it is there nonetheless.


This rule was put in place so the members and regulars would not be spending all of their time designing coats-of-arms for non-serious persons be they children, gamers and the fickle (who notoriously haunt heraldic forums; constantly changing their arms or even worse never deciding on a design). The idea behind the rule is that if one is not willing to put forth a small sum of money then one is not really going to make use of a newly minted coat-of-arms.

 
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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21 September 2010 03:07
 

David Pritchard;79162 wrote:

This rule was put in place so the members and regulars would not be spending all of their time designing coats-of-arms for non-serious persons be they children, gamers and the fickle (who notoriously haunt heraldic forums; constantly changing their arms or even worse never deciding on a design). The idea behind the rule is that if one is not willing to put forth a small sum of money then one is not really going to make use of a newly minted coat-of-arms.


Ya’ know, there are heraldists who charge $500-$800 just for a design, and it costs an additional sum to actually have the arms painted. Perhaps, to help encourage membership here (with the added benefits of design help) we should begin by suggesting a list of heraldists they could contact, with their prices, then list the AHS for the low low sum of only $20.

 
Benjamin Thornton
 
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Benjamin Thornton
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21 September 2010 09:41
 

David Pritchard;79162 wrote:

This rule was put in place so the members and regulars would not be spending all of their time designing coats-of-arms for non-serious persons


I’ve expressed concern with this rule before, as some of you may recall.  I’ve not brought it up recently, but since it has come up, I think a divide must be drawn between the Society as an organization, and the fora as a community of individual enthusiasts.

 

I agree that the purpose of this organization is not to provide design advice to potential armigers. And so the Society does not offer any professional, semi-professional, or expert services, nor does it provide any registration or protection of arms. But clearly the Society sanctions, or perhaps even encourages, co-operation among forum users in helping individuals design their own arms - else why have not one, but two design fora?  Obviously, anyone spending "all of their time" designing coats of arms does so freely and willingly, and is spending only their time, not the Society’s (although I suppose the Society’s bandwidth is being "spent")

 

I suppose what I’m asking (again) is this: does the Board have a stated rationale behind the current policy that creates two unfortunate consequences, namely

 

(a) allowing new members to draw from the design expertise of only a subset of forum users, and

 

(b) requiring non-member forum users to pay to contribute to ongoing design discussions, that is, to pay to help.

 

These consequences are either intended or unintended corallaries to the notion of getting new members to pay to access the design expertise on the fora. If intended, mustn’t there be identifiable intent (e.g. that it is an acceptable cost to leave such shortcomings in the system if the greater good is served)? And if unintended, might it be worthwhile to review the discussion that created them.

 

I understand the purpose of assigning value and privilege to membership, but I’m not sure the current rules best serve the purposes of the Society.

 

I hope this is taken as constructive criticism - I’ve rarely found an online group as learned and courteous.