St. Michael’s University School - so close

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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18 April 2011 14:41
 

It really is a shame to see good heraldry get lost in, of all things, a merger of two schools with good coats of arms. They could have simply impaled the two coats, couldn’t they? Or quartered them?


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Quote:

The original crests of University School, with the martlets and the book on the left, and St. Michael’s School, with the chevron and stars on the right, were combined to create the current-day crest of St. Michaels University School.

 

 
 
werewolves
 
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werewolves
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18 April 2011 15:30
 

Wow, no kidding, ruined two coats in one shot.  What a shame.

 
Kathy McClurg
 
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Kathy McClurg
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18 April 2011 16:16
 

I wonder if the decision makers on these things ever consult anyone who has a clue.  There were too many ways to either save the originals (impaled or quartered as suggested) or taken elements for a nice set of new arms.  Like could have done the martlets in chief and the chevron in base… There were many options.

 
werewolves
 
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werewolves
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18 April 2011 16:50
 

Kathy McClurg;82094 wrote:

I wonder if the decision makers on these things ever consult anyone who has a clue.  There were too many ways to either save the originals (impaled or quartered as suggested) or taken elements for a nice set of new arms.  Like could have done the martlets in chief and the chevron in base… There were many options.


I imagine that they may consult someone who at least knows the basics, but probably override any good advice with whatever some board thinks looks good.

 

I suppose we could try for theoretical improvements to get the bad taste out of our mouths :wink:

 

Since books are so over-done:

 

Argent between three mullets sable a chevron Azure, on a chief Gules between two martlets a Celtic cross head all Argent

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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18 April 2011 16:58
 

werewolves;82095 wrote:

since books are so over-done:

argent between three mullets sable a chevron azure, on a chief gules between two martlets a celtic cross head all argent


bingo!

 
 
werewolves
 
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werewolves
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18 April 2011 17:01
 

Kenneth Mansfield;82096 wrote:

bingo!


I think you are biased toward the chief 8-)

 
Jay Bohn
 
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Jay Bohn
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19 April 2011 16:43
 

werewolves;82095 wrote:

I suppose we could try for theoretical improvements to get the bad taste out of our mouths :wink:

Since books are so over-done:

 

Argent between three mullets sable a chevron Azure, on a chief Gules between two martlets a Celtic cross head all Argent


Maybe a little simpler: "Argent between in chief two martlets and in base a Celtic cross Gules a chevron Azure." One less tincture.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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20 April 2011 15:14
 

Maybe because it’s named after a saint, they feel obligated to use a design fit for a new bishop?

 
steven harris
 
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steven harris
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21 April 2011 09:26
 

Yes, either impale, quarter, or even dimidiate the two existing arms (dimidiation would be interesting, and could work since both existing arms are vertically symmetrical).

I would think that the arms of University School would take the first quarter, or the dexter side, since it is the older of the two schools.

 

Then, either a new motto should be assumed, or put one school’s above the arms Scotland-style and the other’s below the arms.

* Mens Sana In Corpore Sano - "A healthy mind in a healthy body" - from Juvenal, who was paraphrasing Thalés

* Nihil Magnum Nisi Bonum - "Nothing is great unless it is good"

 

The school&#8217;s mascot for its athletic teams, a blue Jaguar, would make a very fine crest to finish off the design.

 

Then we could talk about the possibility of supporters?

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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22 April 2011 15:36
 

...or, in the new "logo" design, make the base Or or Argent (depending on the school colors) charged with the blue jaguar.

DE: dimidiation—interesting yes, but a half-chevron is indistinguishable from a half-bend.

 
Kathy McClurg
 
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22 April 2011 16:50
 

I don’t know, If I saw a half mullet under the "bend" I might guess it was a dimidiation. and with the half book, it might be a sure thing.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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25 April 2011 15:25
 

The half-mullet etc would tell you its a dimidiation; but not whether you’re looking at half of a bend or half of a chevron.

 
George Lucki
 
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George Lucki
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25 April 2011 15:47
 

Kenneth Mansfield;82090 wrote:

It really is a shame to see good heraldry get lost in, of all things, a merger of two schools with good coats of arms. They could have simply impaled the two coats, couldn’t they? Or quartered them?


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I think the simplest approach might have been to simply jopin the arms in pale or in fess - I know the suggestions are good provided are ood ones but I would have suggested to their Board that this was the way to heraldically SMUS things together. wink

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
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Jeremy Keith Hammond
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25 April 2011 18:53
 

I don’t want to go around saying what the society ought or ought not do, esp. since I’ve never gotten around to submitting dues and joining (I promise to someday!) BUT - it’s times like these I wonder what would have happened if the American Heraldry Society focused more on outreach (two fold, one: to promote heraldry; two: to solicit more members/donations to accomplish the first).

If people, esp. in academic circles new the society existed - perhaps our opinions would be solicited more often and such tragedies could be avoided.

 

But who am I to say such things as the guy who disappeared from these forums for about two years? :???:

 

Would it be uncouth to write the new university a letter from the society advising them in hindsight? Eh… Probably, ay?

 
Jeremy Keith Hammond
 
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Jeremy Keith Hammond
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25 April 2011 19:00
 

Ack! Reading through again, I just noticed this is a Canadian college. That’s doubly embarrassing for a school in a nation with such a successful heraldic community and legal authority.