Wow, now that’s a cake! Love to see the little touches of the coat of arms in there. I don’t know how many people would actually notice that but it’s a great touch.
I only just recently noticed that the arms of the Duchess of Cambridge have changed slightly to give her a supporter of her own, which is not unusual at all. The Scottish unicorn is replaced with a Hind Argent unguled and gorged with a Coronet of Prince William’s degree Or. Very nice. I was wondering when they’d get around to this.
gselvester;97362 wrote:
I only just recently noticed that the arms of the Duchess of Cambridge have changed slightly to give her a supporter of her own, which is not unusual at all. The Scottish unicorn is replaced with a Hind Argent unguled and gorged with a Coronet of Prince William’s degree Or. Very nice. I was wondering when they’d get around to this.
How Virginia Dare-esque!
David Pope;97365 wrote:
How Virginia Dare-esque!
How so?
(Arms of Virginia Dare:
http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1171&stc=1&d=1358973284)
What am I missing?
All HRH needs now is a motto of her own ("needs" being a relative term).
Since her deer is blazoned as gorged with "a coronet of William’s degree", does that mean that as William’s coronet changes as he becomes heir-apparent, then (presumably) Prince of Wales, and the King - that the coronet of her supporter will change as well?
steven harris;97368 wrote:
Since her deer is blazoned as gorged with "a coronet of William’s degree", does that mean that as William’s coronet changes as he becomes heir-apparent, then (presumably) Prince of Wales, and the King - that the coronet of her supporter will change as well?
Yes it does.
Regarding the question of the coronet gorging the sinister supporter of the arms of HRH The Duchess of Cambridge. I should think that the use of this particular coronet - that of the Sovereign’s grandchild: issue of sons in the direct line - will either remain or be removed when HRH The Duke of Cambridge becomes the Prince of Wales and eventually King. I believe that a change of coronet or crown is not practical or from an aesthetic point of view in relation to the coronet gorged around the neck of the hind as both the coronet of the Prince of Wales and the St Edward’s Crown have arches. At present, I can think of no precedent where an arched coronet or crown has ever been used in British heraldry gorging the neck of a beast or monster - royal or not. So saying, I suppose the circlet of both the coronet of the Prince of Wales and the St Edward’s Crown (both have four crosses paty [one and two halves being visible] and four fleur-de-lys [two visible] could be used if the arches were removed. Undoubtedly, this question may very well arise in the future and I would imagine that at that time the then Garter and Lord Lyon would offer their opinion to the Royal Household.
A fuller explanation is given on : http://www.dukeandduchessofcambridge.org/the-duchess-of-cambridge/titles-and-heraldry/coat-of-arms-0
As will be noted from this, the new supporters was granted by HM The Queen by Royal Warrant which is the traditional way of dealing with Royal heraldry and not by grant of arms. The enabling Royal Warrant being lodged at the College of Arms and entered into the College’s official records.
With regard to mottoes. All the most recent queens consort (Alexandra, Mary and Elizabeth, the Queen Mother) never used or were assigned a motto.
John
liongam;97374 wrote:
With regard to mottoes. All the most recent queens consort (Alexandra, Mary and Elizabeth, the Queen Mother) never used or were assigned a motto.
John
Wasn’t that a time when women in general weren’t allowed mottoes?
Conversely, I don’t think the present male consort has a motto either, or does he?
Joseph McMillan;97367 wrote:
How so?
(Arms of Virginia Dare:
http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1171&stc=1&d=1358973284)
What am I missing?
The romantic legend that all North Carolinians learn in grade school is that Virginia Dare was transformed into a beautiful white doe!
See here:
Joseph McMillan;97376 wrote:
Conversely, I don’t think the present male consort has a motto either, or does he?
He does - "God Is My Help"
as does HRH The Countess of Wessex – "Cas Gŵr Ni Châr Y Wlad A’i Maco" (in Welsh: Hateful the man who loves not the country that nurtured him)
David Pope;97377 wrote:
The romantic legend that all North Carolinians learn in grade school is that Virginia Dare was transformed into a beautiful white doe!
See here:
Perhaps it’s an allusion to her family’s wealth?"
liongam;97374 wrote:
Regarding the question of the coronet gorging the sinister supporter of the arms of HRH The Duchess of Cambridge. I should think that the use of this particular coronet - that of the Sovereign’s grandchild: issue of sons in the direct line - will either remain or be removed when HRH The Duke of Cambridge becomes the Prince of Wales and eventually King. I believe that a change of coronet or crown is not practical or from an aesthetic point of view in relation to the coronet gorged around the neck of the hind as both the coronet of the Prince of Wales and the St Edward’s Crown have arches. At present, I can think of no precedent where an arched coronet or crown has ever been used in British heraldry gorging the neck of a beast or monster - royal or not. So saying, I suppose the circlet of both the coronet of the Prince of Wales and the St Edward’s Crown (both have four crosses paty [one and two halves being visible] and four fleur-de-lys [two visible] could be used if the arches were removed. Undoubtedly, this question may very well arise in the future and I would imagine that at that time the then Garter and Lord Lyon would offer their opinion to the Royal Household.
I think this very thing already has a precedent, namely, of an open circlet without arches being used. You need only look at the arms of both of the wives of Prince Charles to see what I mean. As for what happens someday when William is king that will be up to him, won’t it? Perhaps at that time the hind will no longer be gorged but crowned as would be fitting for a Queen Consort. But, we’ll just have to wait and see. In the mean time I don’t see that it will be an issue if/when William someday becomes Prince of Wales as a precedent has already been set with the arms of the late Diana, Princess of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall.
Guy,
Mea culpa!! You are correct upon this. I am afraid that forgot about the gorged sinister supporters of both Diana, Princess of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall. I had my mind on other things this morning - we had the gas engineer in attempting to get our central heating boiler working once again in the present near to sub zero temperatures we are experiencing at present in Hertfordshire.
All the best
John
Has anyone come across the crest granted to Mr. Middleton? (Assuming that he was granted a crest.)
David Pope;104810 wrote:
Has anyone come across the crest granted to Mr. Middleton? (Assuming that he was granted a crest.)
It’s reported to be : A Rock Argent thereon a Wolf sejant Azure gorged with a Collar of Roses Argent barbed and seeded Proper supporting in the dexter Forepaw a Caduceus Or Serpent Gules.
