blazoning a custom dividing line

 
Andemicael
 
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Andemicael
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23 May 2011 13:00
 

Hi all, It’s been a long time!

So glad to see this place is still so lively, full of familiar faces, and so much new information.

That being said, I’m here with an old question.

 

I’m hoping to register with the US Heraldic Register, trying to find the best possible blazon to use to describe the following partition, which I’m calling per epine

 

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h161/blackgas/epinee.jpg

 

Here it is as part of my achievement.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h161/blackgas/western-4.jpg

 

here’s the original thread, which I can no longer post to:

http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1623

 

and these are some of the possible blazons that I pulled from that thread:

 

•indented of four points to base Or each voided of the upper limb of a Maltese cross vert.

 

•maltese cross limbs dovetailed and indented

 

•maltese cross segments dovetailed with each segment indented once basewise at its widest point

 

Can you help me find something truly authoritative to blazon this line?

 
 
Jeffrey Boyd Garrison
 
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Jeffrey Boyd Garrison
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23 May 2011 16:55
 

Crossing my fingers that someone can pull this off. :D

 
Dohrman Byers
 
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Dohrman Byers
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23 May 2011 18:03
 

By analogy with "dovetailed," could one perhaps say simply "swallow-tailed"?

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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23 May 2011 23:43
 

Welcome back!!—it’s been far too long!

I would likely have said "Dovetailed indented"—which isn’t really all that precise—but I rather like Fr Byers’ suggestion which IMO seems to more clearly convey the image.

 

Alternatively, I think (but can’t put my finger on it at the moment) that there is a standard term for a cross with a V-shaped notch at the end of each arm.  If I’m right, perhaps "dovetailed - [word]" would do the trick?

 
Andemicael
 
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Andemicael
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24 May 2011 00:51
 

Hello Michael!

Do you mean a Maltese cross?

 

I like the good father’s suggestion — though a google image search of a swallowtail, or swallowtail joint, only seems to yield a type of shaker box that might be apt to confuse…

 

Looking forward to hearing some suggestions. I’ve also gone ahead and asked the Canadian College of Heraldry for advice.

I tried the Court of the Lord Lyons and College of Arms, but lo and behold, snail mail only.

 
 
liongam
 
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liongam
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24 May 2011 04:59
 

Menkerios,

I would venture to suggest that your proposed line of partition should not be blazoned as ‘dovetailed’ or a variant thereof.  As it would appear to be derived from the maltese cross, why not blazoned as ‘per fess maltese’ so your arms would be blazoned as follows: ‘Per fess maltese or and vert in chief a bee volant and in base a rose all counterchanged’  What do you think?  I believe it be simple and to the point and, of course, you can then have: ‘per pale maltese’, ‘per chevron maltese’, per bend maltese’, a chief maltese, ‘a chevron maltese’ and so on.

 

John

 
emrys
 
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emrys
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24 May 2011 10:17
 

I don’t think that that would work because if I read ‘Per fess maltese’ I think of a half maltese cross up and under the division line.

 
Andemicael
 
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Andemicael
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25 May 2011 04:12
 

I received this inspiring response from David Robert Wooten, Executive Director, The American College of Heraldry:


Quote:

Thank you for contacting us. I’m afraid we are not experts as to naming new lines of division, though yours seems most appropriate. I believe that, regardless of the artist you chose to render the arms, you would have to explain your new word if the blazon was to be included in the rendering. Otherwise, the line would simply be blazoned “thorny.”

Quite frankly, there is no heraldic authority, in this country or abroad, that would have the sole domain over “authorizing” a new heraldic term. They come into the lexicon by new invention, such as you propose. Just because something isn’t listed in one of the heraldic dictionaries readily available, does not mean it isn’t a perfectly good design feature. In fact, the Canadians have become quite creative of late in developing new heraldic charges, lines of division, etc.

 

 
 
Arthur Radburn
 
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Arthur Radburn
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25 May 2011 06:38
 

Andemicael;83469 wrote:

I received this inspiring response from David Robert Wooten, Executive Director, The American College of Heraldry:

Menkerios

The ACH makes an excellent point.  You devised the line, you get to name it.

 

The snag that the term won’t be found in printed reference sources can be overcome, to some extent, by putting the term into online sources, e.g. the ‘Line (heraldry)’ article on Wikipedia.  Someone googling for ‘epiné’ in the heraldic context would be directed to that page, probably also to this AHS forum page, and any other page where your arms or the line are discussed.

 
reignerok
 
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reignerok
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25 May 2011 12:25
 

Arthur Radburn;83473 wrote:

by putting the term into online sources, e.g. the ‘Line (heraldry)’ article on Wikipedia.


I want to remember you that Wikipedia asks for sources on the content. So this forum or whatever page defining the term should be linked.

 
Andemicael
 
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Andemicael
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26 May 2011 16:26
 

Thank you for the advice. Hopefully that will also give pause to overzealous wiki editors in the heraldry community, should any exist. smile

 
 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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27 May 2011 22:04
 

As an aside here, but referring to another thread re: your crest—the version in post #1 of this thread is really nice!