Good question Joshua.  I cannot say what the most common practice would be here in the USA, but I’ve read various Spanish certifications of arms and German grants that are destined to two petitioners who are brothers and their heirs.  Cousins I don’t know.  Always though, the petitioners are individuals who are alive and the destination of the arms is to their heirs, not the heirs of a dead ancestor.

This is an interesting area of heraldic customs and usage to study further.

It’s not really a branch I’ve read much about, so I’d be curious to learn more.  I will make it clear that I’m not suggest the two brothers assign arms to their father, and then adopt it themselves.  I’m suggesting that logically since they are brothers, you would think they could share the same arms by adopting the same one together…which could enable them to honor their father with it, without imposing them on their deceased father.

Several of the leading German heraldic societies will register arms in the name of an ancestor for use by his descendants. The Greve Wappenindex, shows a number of these in its database. For example, the arms of Baumann

http://www.familie-greve.de/modules/wappenindex/gross/b/ba/baumann1.gif

were designed by Michael Baumann and entered in "Zum Kleeblatt’s" Niedersächsische Wappenrolle by Michael, Rudolf, and Ingo Baumann in 1994, with "all male-line descendants of the barber Friedrich Max Baumann, b. Bernburg, 17 Mar 1852" entitled to bear them (Führungsberechtigt).

Or these:

http://www.familie-greve.de/modules/wappenindex/gross/f/fi/fichtl.gif

designed based on an idea by Helmut Fichtl and entered by him in "Der Herold’s" Deutsche Wappenrolle in 1993, with "all descendants in the male line of Caspar Viechtl, b. 1555, d. 18 Oct 1619 in Thomasreuth" being Führungsberechtigt.

Thanks Joseph for the examples, as well as a couple of emblazons.  I assume that if you were to do something like this, and register it with the ACH, it would be best to make a note of the fact that you’re registering your arms in honor of your father, but not actually assigning them to your father…and then naturally list your brother(s) as other people who are adopting the same arms.  Am I thinking this through correctly?

J. Stolarz;87477 wrote:

Thanks Joseph for the examples, as well as a couple of emblazons. I assume that if you were to do something like this, and register it with the ACH, it would be best to make a note of the fact that you’re registering your arms in honor of your father, but not actually assigning them to your father…and then naturally list your brother(s) as other people who are adopting the same arms. Am I thinking this through correctly?

I’m not sure how exactly the ACH would word the registration, but their website says this:

Quote:

The College is willing to Register new arms to the person requesting the Registration, or to a paternal ancestor no more than one generation beyond a living person in the line. Therefore, one may elect to have the arms Registered (a) to one’s self; (b) to one’s father and his descendants; (c) and if the father is yet living, then one may have the arms Registered to his paternal grandfather and his descendants; (d) and occasionally, when a grandfather is yet living, one may request that the arms be Registered to the paternal great-grandfather and his descendants. The method depends on the applicant’s preference. There is no extra charge for adding one or many descendants at the time of the initial Registration.

I think your best bet is just to ask them.

It’s similar with the NEHGS.  You may record the arms in the name of an ancestor no further back than a grandfather.  You attest that you intend them to be used by the descendants of that ancestor "according to the law of arms in force at the time the United States was settled."  That expression just invites argument, of course, but I take it to mean in general that the arms descend in the legitimate male line.

Interesting, and it does make sense as well.  Now, if I were to propose this to my family, I’d first have to see if any of them would have interest in such a thing. Or if I’ve just gotten an education on the subject, and should just let my father bear the same arms as myself haha.

I registered my fater’s arms with the ACH an the registration includes all living descendants (dad had passed).  I did this as an honor to him.  Unfortunately, as I was working with an IAAH herald and had yet to find the forums and the ancestry is Scotish and I didn’t want to exclude females and I did want the next generation involved and… whatever other reasons.  We proceeded to design unique arms for each member of the family based on my father’s arms.  I am in the process of acquiring both digital and physical artwork for the family of their own arms as their Christmas presents…  Making an unabashed effort to get the family interested in their arms, set some family "rules" for continuing the arms and thereby hopefully not having the whole thing die out when I do…  Two of the 5 in the next generation so far are "eating it up" so, with any luck - the arms project might live on some…

Regardless, this all started as an effort to honot Dad, do a bit of family research and just have some fun….  Now, If I can just get the Beckers off dead center..

Well I’m still playing with the idea of even bringing this up to my family, and how exactly I would go about it without coming off as just sounding forward haha.  As I’ve mentioned several times before, it would still be a shame in my mind to abandon my own arms completely, which caused me to have a thought.  If my father and his two brothers all had the same arms, but distinct crests, it would be a way to distinguish between the three different lines.  Then if that was done, my father could retain the wolf holding a lit candle in the shape of a cross, for the crest.  But then that starts the debate all over again on alternative crests and if they should always be retained, or when they’re passed on to the next generation, should only the eldest son retain it.

I think it would be important to get the agreement of any cousins who’s long dead grandfather or great grandfather was being attributed arms as they could have other ideas about what they would like their ancestor’s arms to be (since they would have a right to "inherit" such arms).  The potential problems posed by atributing arms to a dead person may be why the ACH will only do so for one deceased generations; presumably it would be easier to get collaboration and agreement on a new blazon between fewer decendents and who all at least know each other.

Agreed Louis, The further back you go… You’re better off starting a family association - doing a basic design and letting th extended family go from there.

I wasn’t suggesting assigning an arms falsely to my grandfather, I was more suggesting that my father and uncles (and cousins) work together on an arms in honor of their father.

Donnchadh;86304 wrote:

am i correct in reading this is a Polish tradition that a different crest creates an entirely different coat of arms and usually for different, or "strange," families? fogive me, but i’ve never read this before, so please point me to a source for reading on it. thanks.

In regards to your question I uploaded some pictures illustrating the idea .

Pay attention to he sequence of arms from 9-19 starting from 14th century Abdank.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.493692068131.299278.708828131&l=ddbefa807b&type=1

cool. thank you. will do.