Lord Lyon and Clans

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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01 November 2011 14:47
 

Denny wrote to Joe re: wearing kilts, "Thanks for the image!"

Actually, if you’d ever seen me in a bathing suit (the closest to kilts I’m ever likely to get), you’d likely be cursing him for the image, and paying a therapist…or maybe a priest with bell, book & candle smile

 
David Pope
 
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David Pope
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01 November 2011 22:01
 

Donnchadh;89516 wrote:

(emphasis mine)

lol. sorry, but the image of people walking around wearing them doing everyday things just came into my head with that. too funny. point taken on that. thanks for the image!


I think you’d be quite surprised to know that there is a small but growing population of folks who wear the kilt as a daily garment.  Another online community that I, as well as other AHS members, frequent, often has quite lively debate concerning this very subject.

 

As far as it being laughable, I’m not sure that the average American would find the practice any less amusing than a bunch of adults who spend their time designing coats of arms.wink

 

Likewise, I think most of those who are daily kilt-wearers would wish us

"heraldry-nerds" all the best in our hobby, instead of goofing on us for our eccentricities…

 
Wilfred Leblanc
 
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Wilfred Leblanc
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01 November 2011 23:00
 

David Pope;89525 wrote:

As far as it being laughable, I’m not sure that the average American would find the practice any less amusing than a bunch of adults who spend their time designing coats of arms.wink


It does kind of beg the question of what does and doesn’t count as Brigadoonery.

 
Benjamin Thornton
 
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Benjamin Thornton
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02 November 2011 09:14
 

Fred White;89527 wrote:

It does kind of beg the question of what does and doesn’t count as Brigadoonery.


I think Potter Stewart’s "I know it when I see it" rule may apply.

 
eploy
 
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eploy
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02 November 2011 09:25
 

David Pope;89525 wrote:

Likewise, I think most of those who are daily kilt-wearers would wish us

"heraldry-nerds" all the best in our hobby, instead of goofing on us for our eccentricities…


I think a "heraldry-nerd" would make an interesting mascot…

 

David, I like your point:  don’t throw bricks in glass houses/don’t let the pot call the kettle black.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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02 November 2011 15:01
 

Fred White;89527 wrote:

It does kind of beg the question of what does and doesn’t count as Brigadoonery.


To me, Brigadoonery implies a kind of fantasized/romanticized re-creation of the way things in Scotland either once were or (more often) really weren’t but poetically should have been. I do think one can be fascinated and even engrossed by Scottish history without indulging in Brigadoonery.

 

Now I’d concede that Brigadoonery is mostly harmless, just as modern Southerners’ pretending to be genteel planters and their belles sipping toddies on the veranda is mostly harmless.

 

But it can also be less innocuous when people start confusing their Brigadoon Scotland with reality, whether historic reality or present-day reality.

 

For example, I think Innes of Learney’s Brigadoonery—trying to turn Lord Lyon into an all-purpose royally empowered arbiter of all things quintessentially Scottish, reviving the obsolete notion that owning a barony made you a baron and entitled you to various kinds of precedence and privilege, twisting earlier authorities like Mackenzie of Rosehaugh and Nisbet to say that a grant of arms had the effect of ennoblement, and so on—did more harm than good in the long run.

 

Among other things, the baronial revival led to a rash of newly self-aware feudal barons (some of whom had only bought the tiny "caput" of the barony a short time before) deciding they had the right to hold a baronial court—which was merely ridiculous—or demanding and enforcing the payment of long-forgotten feudal dues, to the point of forcing their "tenants" off of long-held land—not so ridiculous. I think that, as Brigadoonish revivals of obsolete practices go, the Clearances were not a particularly attractive model of emulation.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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05 November 2011 00:52
 

David Pope;89525 wrote:

I think you’d be quite surprised to know that there is a small but growing population of folks who wear the kilt as a daily garment.  Another online community that I, as well as other AHS members, frequent, often has quite lively debate concerning this very subject.

As far as it being laughable, I’m not sure that the average American would find the practice any less amusing than a bunch of adults who spend their time designing coats of arms.wink

 

Likewise, I think most of those who are daily kilt-wearers would wish us

"heraldry-nerds" all the best in our hobby, instead of goofing on us for our eccentricities…


sorry you took offense to my laughing at Joe’s joke. sometimes i forget how serious people get about their little projects—including myself—and i mean no harm in laughing at what Joe posted. but, with all due respect—AND AS AN OCCASIONAL KILT WEARER (i have 4 different ones now)—it was dang funny and i thought worthy of a laugh so won’t apologize for the laugh itself. hope you can understand the difference and see there’s no malice intended in that at all. if not, well, it won’t be the first time someone has misunderstood what i mean and life will go on…..

 
Doug Welsh
 
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Doug Welsh
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06 November 2011 14:07
 

And being one of those who wears a kilt most days by simple preference of style, and has done so for years, I have to say I see fewer "odd reactions".  Is it an increasing ability by Americans to accept differences?

 
cachambers007
 
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cachambers007
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06 November 2011 18:04
 

I think it’s more a case of America having gotten so very strange that something like a kilt is no longer shocking.


Doug Welsh;89683 wrote:

And being one of those who wears a kilt most days by simple preference of style, and has done so for years, I have to say I see fewer "odd reactions".  Is it an increasing ability by Americans to accept differences?

 

 
harold cannon
 
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harold cannon
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06 November 2011 19:12
 

I can assure you it is tollerence. Here in the south, where conservitive is the norm, a man in a kilt is quite likely to only get maybe one geer where as on the other hand he will receive a whole host of compliments. It really is accepted where I live and many young women love to see a man in a kilt!

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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07 November 2011 12:29
 

Might we bring the discussion back to heraldry?  The wisdom, prudence, propriety, or tastefulness of wearing a kilt in 21st century America is really not at issue.  De gustibus non est disputandum because it’s ultimately pointless.

The question is whether an American who is entitled by Scottish practice to use various embellishments in his arms should voluntarily refrain from using them in non-Scottish contexts.  This may also be a question of taste, but at least it’s a heraldic one.