Arms of the American Heraldry Society by ASJ

 
steven harris
 
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steven harris
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14 November 2011 13:06
 

Yes, “De Oppresso Liber” is an oft-sited example of bad Latin that is supposed to mean “to free from oppression”.  I would opine that the bad grammar is because somebody, somewhere, was trying to mimic the structure of “E Pluribus Unum” – the motto of the United States.

 

As a noun, “liber” does mean ‘book’ (where we get our word for library), but as an adjective the same word means ‘free, unrestricted’ (where we get our words for liberal and liberation).  So that isn’t incorrect in itself, but neither sense is a verb meaning “to free”.  The verb that they were attempting to use seems to have been “liberare”.

 

Their “oppresso” comes from an adjective meaning ‘suppressed’; not only would this seem to be the wrong word (using an adjective for a noun), but they use it in a singular inflection – thus referring to just one oppressed man.  The suggested “oppressos” is in the plural, but it is in the wrong case - “oppressis” would have been a better fix, but that’s mute anyway.  The Latin noun for oppression is “oppressio”, which in this usage (with the preposition ‘de’) would be declined as “oppressione”.

 

If I were tasked with translating “to free from oppression” into Latin, I would propose something along the lines of “Dē Oppressiōne Līberāre” – but I am just an amateur Latinist and wasn’t consulted on this project.  :p

 

 

Now, does the AHS have any desire and/or need for a motto and crest to pull together a more complete emblazonment??

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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14 November 2011 13:20
 

steven harris;89942 wrote:

Now, does the AHS have any desire and/or need for a motto and crest to pull together a more complete emblazonment??


I suppose "desire" could be debated among the membership. As for "need"...I don’t see any.

 
 
James Dempster
 
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James Dempster
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14 November 2011 13:28
 

May I be the first to suggest for crest

A dragon passant encircling a shield Or and biting its tail

 

Symbolic of

 

The neverending nature of some of our discussions wink

As a guardian of heraldry (that’s why I made the shield Or)

 

I haven’t specified a colour for the dragon since I’ve no great preference. Azure would relate to the colour of the chief and the "heraldic" rather than "American" symbolism of the arms but then the shield would have to be Argent to carry the allusion. Gules might be seen as too Welsh.

 

James

 
steven harris
 
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steven harris
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14 November 2011 13:37
 

I just looked at the TIOH source page that Guy linked to above.  It states that “the motto more fully translated means, ‘From Oppression We Will Liberate Them.’”

This, I hypothetically propose, would be “Eōs Dē Oppressiōne Līberābimus”.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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14 November 2011 14:02
 

James Dempster;89945 wrote:

May I be the first to suggest for crest

A dragon passant encircling a shield Or and biting its tail

 

Symbolic of

 

The neverending nature of some of our discussions wink

As a guardian of heraldry (that’s why I made the shield Or)

 

I haven’t specified a colour for the dragon since I’ve no great preference. Azure would relate to the colour of the chief and the "heraldic" rather than "American" symbolism of the arms but then the shield would have to be Argent to carry the allusion. Gules might be seen as too Welsh.

 

James


I don’t know about the crest, but the motto should definitely be "Equum mortuum semper flagellando."

 
Benjamin Thornton
 
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Benjamin Thornton
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14 November 2011 14:18
 

Joseph McMillan;89949 wrote:

I don’t know about the crest, but the motto should definitely be "Equum mortuum semper flagellando."


I like it.

 
steven harris
 
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steven harris
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14 November 2011 14:56
 

Joseph McMillan;89949 wrote:

I don’t know about the crest, but the motto should definitely be "Equum mortuum semper flagellando."


Well played, Sir!  :rofl:

 

For a motto, I think that “Virtue, not pedigree, is the mark of nobility” nicely sums up the AHS’s attitude towards heraldry (and the rights to it) in the United States.  This can be shortened to simply “Virtue not pedigree”.

 

I would advocate using the motto in Latin (“Nobilitatis Virtus Non Stemma”) – but I understand if we’d rather go with English.  The Latin of the short-version is “Virtus Non Stemma”.

 

That’s my 2¢, Steven

 
Kathy McClurg
 
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Kathy McClurg
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14 November 2011 16:54
 

As long as the dragon is Azure, I’m in!

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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14 November 2011 17:19
 

steven harris;89952 wrote:

For a motto, I think that “Virtue, not pedigree, is the mark of nobility” nicely sums up the AHS’s attitude towards heraldry (and the rights to it) in the United States.  This can be shortened to simply “Virtue not pedigree”.

I would advocate using the motto in Latin (“Nobilitatis Virtus Non Stemma”) – but I understand if we’d rather go with English.  The Latin of the short-version is “Virtus Non Stemma”.

 

That’s my 2¢, Steven


i like this too. i agree it seems an accurate, fair motto for who we are and what we believe.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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14 November 2011 17:41
 

Actually, I don’t think we need either a crest or a motto.  In any case,  "Nobilitatis virtus non stemma" and variants thereof are trite.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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14 November 2011 17:53
 

Joseph McMillan;89955 wrote:

Actually, I don’t think we need either a crest or a motto.  In any case,  "Nobilitatis virtus non stemma" and variants thereof are trite.


agreed we don’t "need" them. but, if we ever "desire" them, as was mentioned above, i’d be ok with that too. i’m not set on this motto. just said i like it for who and what we are.

 

besides…just because something can be viewed as trite when others, maybe lots of others, use it doesn’t mean that it’s not valid, good when someone else does. que no?

 

 

p.s. i know you’re busy with much more important real life things…but…what will it take to get an emblazon of my arms from you like you had done and shared with us before?—and no i don’t have any boy scout gongs to be part of it…just shield, crest, helm, & mantling (mottoes optional) smile (forgive me…i have to keep trying! i know you can’t and i’m in an art collecting mood)

 
arriano
 
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arriano
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14 November 2011 19:29
 

Motto: At Liberty to Assume

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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14 November 2011 19:32
 

"When you assume…" No, that won’t work.

 
 
Claus K Berntsen
 
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Claus K Berntsen
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14 November 2011 20:34
 

If I may be so bold…

How about a suitable animal (perhaps not a bald eagle) holding a Herald’s baton?

 
Kathy McClurg
 
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Kathy McClurg
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14 November 2011 21:00
 

I think we are just fine without crest or motto - although always fun to discuss designs…  particularly with a bit of levity…

It’s like supporters, don’t need em!  <chuckle, lets see where this one goes!>