I looked closer to at what he sent and mine are the second arms to be registered this year.
I was excited when I first got orders that I was going to be stationed here in Arizona, because at the time I was under the impression that the cronista offered registrations for anyone residing in the former Spanish Empire. I was disappointed when I learned that he holds no legal power now.
Your experience has renewed my interest. Would you share that .pdf file describing the process? I can read Spanish and get the gist, but that’s about it. Several of my soldiers are first-language Spanish speakers.
It would be interesting to those of us with absolutely no memory of that 2 years of Spanish WAY back in High School to see any english version you may have as well.. 
Hammontree;91648 wrote:
I was excited when I first got orders that I was going to be stationed here in Arizona, because at the time I was under the impression that the cronista offered registrations for anyone residing in the former Spanish Empire.
Actually, all Americans and even permanent residents were eligible to apply for Spanish certifications from the late Don Vicente. You didn’t have to live in the American southwest or Florida to qualify. I never bothered applying for a Spanish certification from Don Vicente because I was under the (mistaken) impression that only those Americans living in former Spanish territories were eligible to apply when in fact that was not the case!
Now it’s too late, and there will never be another Spanish Ministry of Justice-recognized cronista. This is unfortunate since Spanish law affords legal protection to certified arms, but there is no one left to certify arms per the law. So in other words, there is a heraldic system in place, but no one to fulfill the all important role of cronista. I wish the Spanairds would finally come down one way or the other on this matter: either dismantle the old law and provide full legal protection for assumed arms, or appoint a new cronista to handle the job. I suspect, however, that the Spanairds have much more pressing concerns such as their economy, and so there will be no resolution of this matter anytime soon.
Does Spain have an official gazette/newspaper where grants from the Marques can be published?
(Several Scottish armigers have placed announcements of their baronial acquistions and/or assumptions of territorial designations in the Scottish Gazette, would like to do the same with my Spanish grant.)
Spain has an official gazette (the Boletin Oficial del Estado), but I doubt that the Marques de la Floresta’s certifications can be published there, as they have no official standing. I don’t believe the BOE accepts non-official announcements, although I do see in today’s edition that there’s a section of announcements of selected notarial acts. So someone who assumed arms in Spain and had that fact documented by a notarial act might be able to see it published in the BOE. I have no idea which notarial acts rate publication and which don’t.
I have received my registration. If it were not for having to do it for my clan to recognise my arms I probably would not have done it. They used the artwork that I provided and the certificate is just computer generated. They do look ok but again they are not worth what I paid.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6755172659_be24a949d1_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7021/6755172673_bb89cf73bb_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7168/6755172681_ee41c18342_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6755172689_737edbd6c2_b.jpg
The scans are a little off but thats becasuse of the scanner not the certificate.
I just got word that my arms are now recognised by the clan. Below is the email.
Dear Harold,
The Cronista de Armas de Castile y Leon, acting with the authority of the government of Castile and Leon in Spain, has lawful authority to grant and record arms within the Kingdom of Spain, and by extension and precedent throughout the former Spanish possessions; given that in the exercise of his office the Cronista de Armas de Castile y Leon has recorded in the official registers of his office those arms which, depicted within the document of registration, are now officially recognized as yours and yours alone, according to the laws of arms, there is no reason why, for aught yet seen, you should not advance same on banner or shield without the interference of any manner of man or men, excepting always the authority of the Cronista de Armas de Castile y Leon.
I can see no reason why you should not display your arms on a banner whenever appropriate. Generally speaking the banner is approximately 4’ x 4’ with the charge facing the pole (flags are measured by the "hoist" and "fly"; the hoist being the edge nearest to the pole and the fly the length of the top of the flag measured from the pole to the corner). Likewise, I can see no reason why you should not display your crest on your bonnet following the usual Scottish customs as you are an accepted member of a recognized Scottish clan.
With best regards,
Yours, aye—
Scott
harold cannon;91971 wrote:
...They do look ok but again they are not worth what I paid.
I disagree—I think they are worth 50 Euro. You could pay much more to have the leather-bound, certified, and hand-painted arms. But for what you paid, I think it is well worth the cost.
—Guy
Fifty euro is not at all a bad deal. Was that really it? Was there a menu of options available?
I only knew of one option. I would have been willing to pay more for a leatherbound and painted rendering.
harold cannon;91978 wrote:
I only knew of one option. I would have been willing to pay more for a leatherbound and painted rendering.
Contact him and ask the price; apparently the "Simple Certification of Arms" costs 50 Euro and anything more than "simple" will cost more. I don’t speak Spanish, but "How much is the leather-bound version" should be something similar to: ¿Cuánto cuesta un encuadernado en cuero versión?
http://rolandoynigo.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/c15.jpg?w=300 http://rolandoynigo.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/c16.jpg?w=300
This page states:
Quote:
Habitualmente, esta clase de documentos se escriben sobre un papel especial ornado con una orla poli-cromada de las armas castellano-leonesas, según un modelo medieval, y con el escudo de armas pintado en el mismo papel apergaminado, en sus colores. Se encuaderna en una carpeta de piel roja, grabada con el escudo de Castilla y León en oro, y protegida por una carpeta roja. Costes de expedición La expedición y registro de una Certificación de Armas es gratuito, ya que también lo es el ejercicio del cargo de Cronista de Armas de Castilla y León. No obstante, los gastos y suplidos de la redacción, confección, encuadernación y legalización de la Certificación de Armas –que dependen de la complejidad y la extensión del documento- han de ser abonados por el propio peticionario.
According to GoogleTranslate, is:
Quote:
"Usually, these kind of documents are written on special paper decorated with a poly-chrome border and the Castilian-Leon Arms, according to a medieval model, with the coat of arms painted in the same parchment paper in your colors. Bound in a red leather portfolio, embossed with the arms of Castile and Leon in gold, and protected by a red folder. Issuance costs and registration issuance of a Certificate of Arms is free, as is his exercising his function as the Chronicler of Arms of Castile and Leon. However, the costs and supplied the drafting, preparation, binding and Certification legalization of Arms, which depend on the complexity and length of the document, are to be paid by the petitioner himself."
Don Alfonso’s leather bound, hand painted certification set me back about Euro 1,000 but that was in 2005. While it is certainly a beautiful document and does nicely profile my immediate family and my achievements alebit in Spanish, it does not of course have any legal effect per the Spanish laws on heraldry. Since my certification was notarized, however, it still has some residual value as a publicly recorded document. Was it worth Euro 1,000? I guess it depends on the person and what s/he wants to achieve. I notice that the Italian Heraldic Council of the Consiglio Araldico Italiano, a private Italian organization with no greater legal or moral authority that either you or me, offers a similar document for a whopping Euro 4,500, which also includes a (pricey) notary registration! See the bottom of the page at: http://www.consiglioaraldico.com/eng/1/index.php?centro=100d. So maybe Don Alfonso’s "top of the line" certification may not be all that bad of a deal when compared to some other private bodies.
For 50 Euros, I think you got a very nice document which you can then choose to frame. It may not look as impressive as the "deluxe certification", but the money you saved can better be spent to hire a top notch artist like Andrew Jamieson.
The sort of site that entices one to buy expensive things one never new one needed or even wanted. Interesting nevertheless to look at. I would agree with you Edward that the money saved would be far better spent on good heraldic art.
harold cannon;91972 wrote:
Dear Harold,
The Cronista de Armas de Castile y Leon, acting with the authority of the government of Castile and Leon in Spain, has lawful authority to grant and record arms within the Kingdom of Spain, and by extension and precedent throughout the former Spanish possessions; given that in the exercise of his office the Cronista de Armas de Castile y Leon has recorded in the official registers of his office those arms which, depicted within the document of registration, are now officially recognized as yours and yours alone, according to the laws of arms, there is no reason why, for aught yet seen, you should not advance same on banner or shield without the interference of any manner of man or men, excepting always the authority of the Cronista de Armas de Castile y Leon.
I can see no reason why you should not display your arms on a banner whenever appropriate. Generally speaking the banner is approximately 4’ x 4’ with the charge facing the pole (flags are measured by the "hoist" and "fly"; the hoist being the edge nearest to the pole and the fly the length of the top of the flag measured from the pole to the corner). Likewise, I can see no reason why you should not display your crest on your bonnet following the usual Scottish customs as you are an accepted member of a recognized Scottish clan.
With best regards,
Yours, aye—
Scott
I understand that Scottish gentlemen (i.e., armigers) are also entired to wear 1 eagle feather on their bonnet under their clan badge, and that Chieftains are entitled to 2 eagle feathers, and that Chiefs are entitled to 3 eagle feathers. I guess your private Spanish certification now entitles you to wear 1 feather on your bonnet, correct? Congratulations! :D
