Guy ask for some photos of a holster that came with Mom’s revolver. Although you can’t see it in the pics, there appears to be a name "RADNOTI TS" written on it. Could be RADNOTT, TS also - It looks rather "etched" into the leather and shows merely as darker with aging.
The gun smith it took mom’s revolver to told me it was quite old (circa WW I) and that it was worth the same as the gun (which is a 1943 whatever)..
Anyway, that’s all I know - I’ve done nothing to really research or confirm the information - but the gun no longer resides in the holster, they now each have their own "homes"
http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1100&stc=1&d=1336559368
http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1101&stc=1&d=1336559381
Not knowing what folks look for - here’s a few more pics.
http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1102&stc=1&d=1336559528
http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1103&stc=1&d=1336559602
Hi Kathy,
Yup, it’s a USGI holser made for the Smith & Wesson Victory model revolver and the Colt Commando revolver with 4" barrels.
Here’s an image of it being worn in WWII:
This particular model GI holster is correct WITHOUT the oval-US stamp on the front.
Thanks,
—Guy
I just had to do a search ........ :rolleyes:
The spelling in these entries could be a variant.
Name: S. Radnoti
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 23 Feb 1932
Death Date: 21 Jun 1990
Cause of Death: Natural
SSN: 185268138
Branch 1: ARMY
Enlistment Date 1: 10 Dec 1952
Release Date 1: 9 Dec 1954
I could find no entries in the WWI archives for either a Radnott or Radnotti. However in the WWII Draft, Enlistment and Service archives there are two entries for Radnoti. Jan, born 1881 Hungary and Joe, born 1895 also from Hungary and both living in Cambria, Pennsylvania. Obviously brothers. Jan worked for Bethlehem Steel while the ink on is brother’s draft card is so faded I can’t make it out. Not an exact match - but (for a geek) nevertheless interesting.
Somehow, Richard I knew you’d do a check… since Guy says it’s a WW II and not WW I holster - that makes a bit more sense. interesting the Cambria, PA - it’s a bit away from my home stomping grounds of Erie, PA - but that they ended up in PA at all is interesting and it’s about 3 to 3.5 hours driving distance from my home (and Mom’s family has been in Erie since they emigrated, dad’s between Erie and Pittsburgh - therefore closer to the Radnoti from Hungary). Makes the possibility of a link almost possible.
And for Guy - the gun:
left barrel: H&R Sportsman double action
Right Barrel: 22LONGRIFLECTC.
Top of Barrel: Harrington & Richardson arms company, WORCHESTER, MASS, U.S.A. (The "Har" in harrington is barely legible)
# Front of grip: D29779
This site has a bunch of information - some of which is more or less "Greek to me"
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=45350
This seems to imply it was manufactured before 1933 - But the S/N seems too high - from above web site (bold provided by me):
Quote:
SPORTSMAN DOUBLE ACTION MODEL 999
LARGE FRAME TOP BREAK
<hr class=“bbcode_rule” >
1932-1952Large frame double action top break revolver; Caliber 22 rimfire (short, long & long rifle) cylinder capacity 9 rounds, 22 Winchester Rim Fire (WRF)
cylinder capacity 7 rounds; Safety rim cylinder; blue finish only; barrel length 6 inches (ribbed); Automatic cylinder stop; Sights: rear adjustable for
windage only, Three different front sights used, full Blade, Partridge type & Partridge type pinned to barrel top rib, all non-adjustable; Finger rest
trigger guard; One piece oversized checkered Walnut grips (birds head grip frame shape, Rice frame); frame mounted firing pin, hammer face is flat.
Cylinder release is long pivoting lever on right side of frame (there are two different version of this). Serial numbered in its own series from 01 up to
at least 89761 by the end of 1939. Starting in 1940 letter codes were used.
Early production until about 1933 the letter code “D” was used to denote double action
First Variation; round heavy weight ribbed barrel with Blade non-adjustable front sight——1932- to before April 18,1933
Second Variation; adjustable front sight—(after 4-18-1933)-
Later in the thread: Someone asks about a S/N 28217 and the response is:
Quote:
From that serial number, your piece falls near a transition point. It is a 1st Model and can be either a 2nd Variation (1933) or a 3rd Var. (1934) - easiest way to tell the difference is if the manufacturer’s stamping in on the top of the barrel or on the right side. Need to know this. Also, I’m assuming there is no ‘D’ letter prefix in your serial number??? At some point in this range, the ‘D’ was dropped. Value depends entirely upon condition - you must describe or post a pic. or the best I can do is provide a range of values.
The stamping on mine is on the top of the barrel, but there is a D prefix on mine (and of course that person never seems to answer the questions asked to better ID his gun)
After sorting through 5 pages of questions and answers… I’m thinking it’s probably a 1943 manufacture.
Quote:
with the serial number i can give you a manufacture era of plus or minus a year or two (on pre1940 years). serial numbers start in 1932 at 01 (or 101) and go up to almost 100,000 by 1939. some early models will have a D letter code (for double action) usually those manufactured before about 1934. starting in 1940 H&R added a letter code for all firearm they made that year. 1940=A and up to 1986=BC.
fyi, the model 999 sportsman double action was manufactured in limited number thru-out the wwII years (1942-1945).
Given other parameters - I’m thinking it’s a 1943 model.
So, for a few pics (sorry for orientation):
http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1104&stc=1&d=1336605125
http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1105&stc=1&d=1336605077
OK - satified the "gun sidebar?"
I found a match for S. Radnoti giving his first name.
Cook County, Illinois Death Index, 1908-1988 about Stephen Radnoti
Name: Stephen Radnoti
Death Date: 21 Jun 1990
Death Location: Cook County, IL
File Number: 36517
Archive collection name: Cook County Genealogy Records (Deaths)
Archive repository location: Chicago, IL
Archive repository name: Cook County Clerk
Given the information from Guy on the Holster and the information on the forum on the gun… I think the gunsmith doesn’t much know his holsters.. Looks like my holster may be worth about $85 and my gun may be worth about $450 (although I’ve seen higher numbers online - that’s about right, me thinks)
Both were Mom’s, and I first learned to shoot with this revolver - so neither are going anywhere soon… 
Richard G.;93381 wrote:
I found a match for S. Radnoti giving his first name.
Cook County, Illinois Death Index, 1908-1988 about Stephen Radnoti
Name: Stephen Radnoti
Death Date: 21 Jun 1990
Death Location: Cook County, IL
File Number: 36517
Archive collection name: Cook County Genealogy Records (Deaths)
Archive repository location: Chicago, IL
Archive repository name: Cook County Clerk
Richard, you may not have notices, but the initials of Mr. Radnoti are "TS" - so… maybe or maybe not. Knowing that Dad was in the navy when the gun was manufactured (1943) and Mom carried the gun while they were separted by the call of duty - there’s a good chance she’s the original owner - I’m wondering if we should be searching for TS Radnoti who served in the USN during WW II? cuz… hmmm… maybe they knew each other and he wanted a cooler looking holster or his gun?
This is definitely the holster I have:
http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=22888&osCsid=af91a790e3d853a70116525a7fea9e82
Kathy McClurg;93383 wrote:
Richard, you may not have notices, but the initials of Mr. Radnoti are "TS" - so… maybe or maybe not. Knowing that Dad was in the navy when the gun was manufactured (1943) and Mom carried the gun while they were separted by the call of duty - there’s a good chance she’s the original owner - I’m wondering if we should be searching for TS Radnoti who served in the USN during WW II? cuz… hmmm… maybe they knew each other and he wanted a cooler looking holster or his gun?
I searched with the initials T.S. Kathy but without a match. "S" was the closest I came in service records. I tried a general search for a T.S. Radnoti however found no good matches. I’ll try another search engine later today.
AH, ok - thought I missed something. As long as it remains of interest to you, great! It is a rather interesting exploration.
Just think of all the stuff we marked our names with when we were kids that mom eventually sold at a garage sale or gave away… hmmm
Kathy McClurg;93382 wrote:
Given the information from Guy on the Holster and the information on the forum on the gun… I think the gunsmith doesn’t much know his holsters.. Looks like my holster may be worth about $85 and my gun may be worth about $450 (although I’ve seen higher numbers online - that’s about right, me thinks)
Both were Mom’s, and I first learned to shoot with this revolver - so neither are going anywhere soon…
Both holster and pistol should remain in your family as heirlooms. Granted, the pistol is not an 1873 Colt’s Single Action Army with a serial number linking it to the Little Big Horn .... still, in a couple more generations it will be more of a family treasure! Heck ... isn’t WWII already considered "ancient history" by those younger than 40 years old????
Thanks for the "eye candy," Kathy.
—Guy
Guy Power;93389 wrote:
Both holster and pistol should remain in your family as heirlooms. Granted, the pistol is not an 1873 Colt’s Single Action Army with a serial number linking it to the Little Big Horn .... still, in a couple more generations it will be more of a family treasure! Heck ... isn’t WWII already considered "ancient history" by those younger than 40 years old????
Thanks for the "eye candy," Kathy.
—Guy
Yes. Did you ever try to explain the cold war to a person 25 years old or less? My daughter doesn’t know it yet, but she’s going to learn to shoot with this gun, too. Probably this summer… :D
You’re welcome Guy. I’d like to thank the moderators as well for their tolerance of our off-topic communications here.
I’m afraid I haven’t come any closer to finding anything for a T.S. Radnoti although I’ve found separate entries for a Thomas and Stephen (brothers perhaps)? In the US WWII Draft Registration appear only Jan and Joe Radnoti. The family name is probably Hungarian in origin with first arrival in the US (according to Ellis Island records) in 1902.
Sorry Kathy, but without a state by state search I probably won’t be able to come much closer. Even so, I think you can be fairly certain the holster once belonged to someone with this family name although precisely who, remains a puzzle.
Richard G.;93393 wrote:
I’m afraid I haven’t come any closer to finding anything for a T.S. Radnoti although I’ve found separate entries for a Thomas and Stephen (brothers perhaps)? In the US WWII Draft Registration appear only Jan and Joe Radnoti. The family name is probably Hungarian in origin with first arrival in the US (according to Ellis Island records) in 1902.
Sorry Kathy, but without a state by state search I probably won’t be able to come much closer. Even so, I think you can be fairly certain the holster once belonged to someone with this family name although precisely who, remains a puzzle.
No problem, Richard. It’s an interesting thought - but not critical… It’s unfortunate I never really took a look at the holster earlier - I had no idea how old it was and just assumed she got it with the gun.. The more detailed information on it’s history which may have provided clues unfortunately passed with mom.
But thank you much for the effort!
