When choosing a motto, I would consider its length. An overly long motto may not sit well under a shield or above a crest or on a standard.
mpnmatthews;94102 wrote:
Thanks all! I think I have broken some rules here, so I’m sorry, and thank you so much for all of your suggestions!
Breaking conventions in a 900 year old tradition isn’t difficult Matthew, and it’s part of the learning curve. We’ve all been there, done that, so you’re in good company. I think I can speak for everyone when I say our ambition is for you to have the best possible.
Mottos for arms are best formulated in a language the armiger is fluent. If inheriting a motto from an ancestor who spoke something else, that’s one thing, but to me, latin is archaic and unneccessary unless you are a member of the church and use latin for this or something similar. Just my opinion. 
Jeffrey Boyd Garrison;94104 wrote:
I would treat both arms separately and design them without consideration of how they would look impaled. Each design IMO should be solid and stand on its own.
As I read through this - I was wondering when this point would be made.
I strongly agree that :
a. You should join the society which is REALLY inexpensive considering at the other end you’ll have two excellent designs via the advice and encouragement of a great and knowledgeable group of people.
b. You’ll have access to the transitions and reasoning of many of the efforts which designed arms here - seeing the transition in their threads in the members only section.
c. Doing one coat of arms at a time (OR get a family membership and let your wife design hers in a separate thread from yours and then marshal them.
Kathy McClurg;94112 wrote:
As I read through this - I was wondering when this point would be made.
I strongly agree that :
a. You should join the society which is REALLY inexpensive considering at the other end you’ll have two excellent designs via the advice and encouragement of a great and knowledgeable group of people.
b. You’ll have access to the transitions and reasoning of many of the efforts which designed arms here - seeing the transition in their threads in the members only section.
c. Doing one coat of arms at a time (OR get a family membership and let your wife design hers in a separate thread from yours and then marshal them.
This is your friendly neighborhood moderator.
For starters, welcome Michael!
Discussions about designing a coat of arms belong in the members only section where we have a forum dedicated to that. The official rule goes like this: "The use of the Society’s Forum for extensive discussions working through the design is limited to Society members and will be conducted in the Member Area section established for that purpose."
If the discussion continues on the same path as it is on right now, I will have to lock the thread.
Regarding Kathy’s point (c) above, you don’t need a family membership to design your wife’s arms in addition to your own. Your personal Society Membership is enough. However, your wife is more than welcome to join in the discussions and you will need the family membership to post her arms in the Society’s Armorial
Jeffrey Boyd Garrison;94109 wrote:
Mottos for arms are best formulated in a language the armiger is fluent. If inheriting a motto from an ancestor who spoke something else, that’s one thing, but to me, latin is archaic and unneccessary unless you are a member of the church and use latin for this or something similar. Just my opinion.
I know Jeffrey will forgive me for respectfully disagreeing with him once again. We are already engaged, one could argue, in an "archaic and unnecesary" tradition. I am fairly sure none of us use shields on a daily babses, use our banner to denote our position on a battlefield, and so on. I used Latin for my motto because it makes me feel connected to others who did the same, for whatever reason, and I like feeling that way.
In my opinion, what pleases you is best, as long as it doesn’t detract from the tradition or those who value it. However, Jeffrey does make a good point, and one that should not go unconsidered.
On last stab before we move into the Members’ section
How about…
Celeste a Crusaders’ cross Or on a chief Gules three tobacco leaves (Nicotiana sp.) Or (for Mister Matthews); impaling quarterly Azure and Or in the first quarter two Curaçaoan stars proper (for Mis’ess Matthews).
I would move your wife’s Scarlet Ibis (E.ruber) up into her crest, where it can be colored proper.
(here is an example of his-and-hers crests on an impalement: http://habitant.org/images/DuLong-and-McGuinness.gif)
You have four symbols on the checkerboard. You could combine 2 of them in a crest (symbols on top of the helm) and the other two in chief argent (the upper 1/3 of the shield). Take a look at my arms in my profile. The cross and a larger ibis could be combined into a really stunning crest. After removing the symbols, I would make the checkerboard pattern twice as large.
Don’t lose hope for the supporters. If you move them away from the shield, you can still use them in a piece of heraldic artwork. Just make it clear they are not part of your achievement.
egerland;94118 wrote:
The cross and a larger ibis could be combined into a really stunning crest.
I like that! But I would still keep the cross in the shield - there is no rule against having it both places. :cool:
edit:
The crest of Pierre Duchesne, Lieutenant-Governor of Québec is "A crane Or beaked and membered Gules, its dexter foot holding a paint brush Azure bristled Or"
http://archive.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/ProjectPics/v429_20070038_arms_Duchesne.jpg
Joseph Staub;94114 wrote:
I know Jeffrey will forgive me for respectfully disagreeing with him once again.
Indeed, you have been granted a season pass for raising counterpoints to my arguments Joseph, lol!
Also, it should be noted that your approach to heraldry really does support the idea of using a latin motto much more suitably than my approach. I look at heraldry as an art which has contemporary utility and can be adapted into a "modern context" as un-distorted as possible from its medieval roots. Your perspective seems to be more of a scholar’s study and preservation out of love of the antiquarian age and its trappings? Your purpose is noble, mine is… more a hedged bet on the potential social changes in the coming years. >;)
Jeffrey Boyd Garrison;94104 wrote:
I would treat both arms separately and design them without consideration of how they would look impaled. Each design IMO should be solid and stand on its own.
kimon;94113 wrote:Discussions about designing a coat of arms belong in the members only section where we have a forum dedicated to that. The official rule goes like this: "The use of the Society’s Forum for extensive discussions working through the design is limited to Society members and will be conducted in the Member Area section established for that purpose."
If the discussion continues on the same path as it is on right now, I will have to lock the thread.
Regarding Kathy’s point (c) above, you don’t need a family membership to design your wife’s arms in addition to your own. Your personal Society Membership is enough. However, your wife is more than welcome to join in the discussions and you will need the family membership to post her arms in the Society’s Armorial
What he said.
Jeffrey Boyd Garrison;94123 wrote:
Indeed, you have been granted a season pass for raising counterpoints to my arguments Joseph, lol!
Your purpose is noble, mine is… more a hedged bet on the potential social changes in the coming years. >;)
I happen to agree with you on the potential societal changes coming soon. I believe what will make these changes less painful is a tight hold on that which, even idealistically, is good and beautiful and fun.
Joseph Staub;94126 wrote:
what will make these changes less painful is
And for a crest, a tinfoil hat proper. 
Sorry for joining the thread this late. Worthy comments by all; all I would add is to take your time, go slowly, don’t commit too soon; & maybe someone will mention the refrigerator test…
Michael F. McCartney;94131 wrote:
Sorry for joining the thread this late. Worthy comments by all; all I would add is to take your time, go slowly, don’t commit too soon; & maybe someone will mention the refrigerator test…
Excellent advice for heraldry…or a relationship.
