Never thought of it as an extension of this apparel before Joesph, but now that you mention it, it seems perfectly logical.
Makes perfect sense, given the supposed origins.
Joseph McMillan;94366 wrote:
Of course nothing Napoleonic should serve as a positive precedent, except the code and the pastry.
:animlol: Good as a generalisation… But in the case of the mantling-borne robes, Buonaparte just followed the old practice (probably developed by the House of Lorraine).
Indeed! While looking for something else, I happened upon this from Canada.
Note the torse as Azure and Argent, while the mantling (in a Scottish style) is in the Black Watch tartan. It is noted: "The tartan is used as mantling for the first time, which is appropriate as the great kilt, like heraldic mantling, serves as a protection from the elements." I wonder if it has been used since…
http://archive.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/ProjectPics/iv339_20020038_arms_boltonb.jpg
http://archive.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/project-pic.asp?lang=e&ProjectID=343&ProjectElementID=1178
steven harris;94493 wrote:
Indeed! While looking for something else, I happened upon this from Canada.
Note the torse as Azure and Argent, while the mantling (in a Scottish style) is in the Black Watch tartan. It is noted: "The tartan is used as mantling for the first time, which is appropriate as the great kilt, like heraldic mantling, serves as a protection from the elements." I wonder if it has been used since…
http://archive.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/ProjectPics/iv339_20020038_arms_boltonb.jpg
http://archive.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/project-pic.asp?lang=e&ProjectID=343&ProjectElementID=1178
I have never seen this one. It find it interesting that they use the kilt for the mantling and the dove is holding thistles in its beak but the motto is under the shield as opposed to over it (as is custom in Scottish arms). Would that be because the arms were granted in Canada and not Scotland? Or just a choice by the armiger?
Re the use of a tartan mantling -
Very interesting and, probably, unique.
However, I am surprised that the Canadian authorities did not specify in the blazon the fact that the mantling was ‘tartan doubled argent’ and did not specify which tartan should be used.
The default is ‘azure doubled argent’ so any artist without the blazon would be correct to depict it that way!
Re Mantling in the form of a mantle -
May I draw your attention to the recent posting by Mitya Ivanov of the arms of the recently devised arms of Landenok where the mantling is disposed in the form of a mantle. I quite like it.
See <http://www.americanheraldry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6634>.
Regards,
Iain Boyd
j.carrasco;94494 wrote:
It find it interesting that… ...the dove is holding thistles in its beak
Jesse, just wanted to throw out that I believe that bird is a martlet argent rather than a dove proper. :o
After a quick scan through the CHA website, I’d say that the Colonel’s use of a tartan mantling is unique.
I’m conflicted re: the use of tartan manteling. In this one case—the grantee having been to CO of the regiment—there is a certain appropriateness; but as a possible exemplar for others to emulate, especially in the US, not so much.
The only cultural tradition in which tartan is a significant part is Scottish—New World echoes in Canada and the US are merely derivative—so IMO one must analyze it in that historical context; and in that context, tartan manteling AFAIK just doesn’t fit. (I stand to be corrected if there is some historical precedent of which I’m not aware.)
Of courser if the current or future Lyon were to sanction it, we (here) would however reluctantly need to revise our understanding of what is appropriate; but I’m not holding my breath…
Iain Boyd;94495 wrote:
May I draw your attention to the recent posting by Mitya Ivanov of the arms of the recently devised arms of Landenok where the mantling is disposed in the form of a mantle. I quite like it.
Dear Ian,
This is, of course, only an artistic liberty, not uncommon for Russian heraldic art. Other emblazonments of the same insignia may, and likely will, have the mantling represented in the common "flamboyantly ragged" form. To add or not to add tassels to the mantling is also, in Russia, a matter of artistical choise (only it is presumed that they must follow the tincture of the mantling, or of its lining, or both), but if the mantling is fringed or corded, this already makes it not a "mere mantling".
Both the ancient habit to repeat the coat on the mantling and the modern English permission to adorn the mantling with badges are also alien for Russian armory. Not as if this cannot be done, but this would turn a "common" mantling into an exclusive, specifically honourable one.
Among the bizarre adornments borne by old Russian noble families, the Chicherins bear a sabre per fess point outwards over each of the two sides of their mantling, and the Counts Chernyshov were authorised to display two Imperial presentation portraits (granted to the founder of the comital branch) on their mantling in perpetuum.
About a year ago, the Province of Yaroslavl’ (in the Central European Russia) approved my designs of the symbols for its governor. One of the symbols was the arms of office, with a special, exclusive mantling [Vert adorned with oak branches Or lined of the same]. Due of its uncommon structure, such a mantling could not be privately assumed, but it may be, and was, established by a state authority, in this case, by the provincial legislature. The subsequent recognition of the federal Heraldry Council was duly accorded.
As to the House of Lorraine, which I previously referred to: here is a typically Lotharingian example of a coat-bearing mantling grown up to a virtual helmet-attached hermine-lined robe, and already completed with a "new" regular mantling.
