I was curious if there were any specfic charges that represented carpentry or wood working outside of trade tools like saws, awls, etc.? Perhaps from a German/Eastern Europe standpoint specifically.

My fiance asked me to develop arms for the Von Hagen (maternal) side of the family, specfically her grandfather. He was a devote Catholic and skilled carpenter and all of his boys and some their boys are as well. I was asked to incorporate those elements in the design. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Michael,

When designing arms for the Von Hagen family, have you considered using the dovetail line of partition? or any ordinaries you may use (if any) could be dovetailed (ie: ‘a chevron dovetailed’).  The use of such a line of partition or an edges to an ordinary would allude to the skill of carpentry without being too obvious, especially for future generations who may never handle a saw or chisel in their life.  The dovetail can in the present case represent both carpentry as well as your fiance’s grandfather’s Catholic beliefs in that Christ worked with his father as a carpenter.  Therefore, using either a line of partition or an ordinary dovetailed would allow further charges to be introduced that may have a bearing on the family’s history or interests other than carpentry.

Just a thought or two.

With every good wish

John

Even just a reference to wood or trees can apply for woodworking, which is what I did for my own arms.  Stolarz means carpenter in Polish, so instead of doing the obvious, I just referenced it by having maple leafs as a charge.  Little more inventive in my own opinion.

Michael, I’m curious if the von Hagen family has carried out any genealogical research. According to Rietstap there are 39 blazons for the name Hagen, and 1 for the name von Hagen zur Motten. The town of Hagen is located in the federal state of North Rhine-Westphalia. Originally part of the Prussian Kingdom. The towns civic arms can be seen here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stadtwappen_der_Stadt_Hagen.svg

and the official city website is here http://www.hagen.de/

There has been some research, but Im not sure of any results or how far back they went. Ive been told they are of Eastern European lineage, but in a general since with a mutt-pedigree. I was going to dive in and do a little research on my own, but I havent seen or heard anything about having arms as of yet. Honestly, Im hopeful to find something.

It might be worth looking into Michael. On this side of the pond the name for example appears amongst the Free Imperial knights of the Upper Rhine with their seat in The Electorate of Mainz, to the Archbishop or Trier in 1540. Pure conjecture of course but nevertheless tantalizing.

If I may, I’d suggest that it’s not the wisest course to look into armigers of the name before starting the genealogical research.  It tends to taint the results.  Wanting to find a connection to a particular person often ensures that you find him, even if the connection isn’t real.

Upon talking to some of the Vonhagen clan today and doing some research, I traced the line back to Louis Von Hagen of Cincinnati (1861-1906). Beyond that I found an immigration record for a Henry Von Hagen that came in on a ship called Johannes(Johannesburg) from Bremen, Germany through Baltimore. The final destination listed on the paperwork is Cincinnati, but I was unable to find any connection between the two.

From what I was told today, no one has ever been able to get to far back in the line, so that might be about as far as it goes without having more defined information.

Joseph McMillan;95660 wrote:

If I may, I’d suggest that it’s not the wisest course to look into armigers of the name before starting the genealogical research.  It tends to taint the results.  Wanting to find a connection to a particular person often ensures that you find him, even if the connection isn’t real.

Information found in historical or genealogical records can be unreliable and it is always good practice to evaluate all sources with a critical eye. Although many claimed noble ancestries are fabrications, nevertheless, family names remain one of the most important resources of genealogical information. Perhaps it would have been better if I suggested the von Hagen name appears to be of some antiquity, and left it at that. My apologies to Michael. It was not my intention to mislead.

Richard,

No need to apologize. I never search looking for a specific lineage and double check other peoples research if I use it. For the holdays I researched a friends line and made it back to 1170 and were Lords of the Leighton area in England. When I presented the line I stressed that its circumstantial at best because the further back you go the harder it is to prove and it would best to go through English channels to find proof. Secondary in that research, I found a twice removed grandmother and many generations back was the sister of Anne Bolyn through Thomas Locke. Finding that to much of a coincidence, I dug in deeper and find that the research I used was flawed because people wanted the connection.

I like knowing there is the potential and the family would like to know there are noble Vonhagens, but I would never claim a false line. If I did, I would be no better than a bucket shop.

Thank you Michael and good luck with your research.

Here are some initial ideas for the design.

1.Azure, a castle tower Argent; on a chief dovetailed Argent, three stars of eight points faceted Gules.

Alternative: a castle tower between two stars of eight points Argent

2. Argent, three stars of eight points faceted arranged in chevron Gules; on a base dovetailed Azure an eight point star faceted Argent.

3. Argent, three stars of eight points faceted Gules; on a chief dovetailed Azure an eight point star faceted Argent.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b146/Snydercrew/VONHAGEN_Wilson.jpg

Taking the advice from John, I used a dovetail partition to represent the carpentry rather than seek out direct objects such as trees or tools. The eight-point stars are used to signify the 8 children of Herbert Von Hagen (where the arms will start most likely) as well as representing "The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit". In turn, on examples 2 and 3, the 4th star represented the Star of Bethlehem.

Hagen means "enclosure", which where the castle tower comes into play. Herbert Von Hagen was a noted carpenter in the area and helped build a lot of churches, homes, and businesses, so the tower ties in the name, occupation, and "stand my ground" attitude he had. In the alternative version, there are two stars on either side which was a thought to represent the wounds of Christ in a distant way, but mainly just add variation to the design.

I’m leaning towards the 1st example, but I have a suspicion that I will need to tweak it a little. Overall, it’s a clean design though and simple.

Michael,

Many thanks for giving me an honourable mention.  Along with yourself I think the first design is the best: with the tower, together with the dovetailed chief charged with three stars each of eight points (there is no need to blazon the stars as being ‘faceted’). The design is crisp and distinct.  Adding a further two stars either side of the tower makes it a little too busy, plus design 1) appears to cover the rationale that you required in order to reflect the family of Von Hagen.

Just a thought, you could tincture the port (door) of tower ‘gules’ and, perhaps, add one arrow loop in cross form (no need to qualify this in the blazon) also tinctured ‘gules’ to add a little colour to the tower.  Using ‘gules’ would also reflect the tinctures of the stars in chief.  You could also qualify the tower (there is no need to call it ‘a castle tower’) as being ’ a round tower’.  The blazon would therefore read:

‘Azure, a round tower Argent, port and arrow loop gules, on a chief dovetailed Argent, three stars of eight points Gules’.

An alternative blazon using ‘of the second’ and ‘of the third’ would be:

‘Azure, a round tower Argent, port and arrow loop gules, on a chief dovetailed of the second, three stars of eight points of the third’.

I know that some American armorists dislike the use ‘of the second’, etc when blazoning arms.  That being said the first blazon as cited above is fine to use.

Another thought has just occured to me.  You could replace the ‘port’ (door) with a ‘portcullis’.  The blazon would then read as:

‘Azure, a round tower Argent, portcullis and arrow loop gules, on a chief dovetailed Argent, three stars of eight points Gules’.

What do you think?

With every good wish

John

liongam;95676 wrote:

I know that some American armorists dislike the use ‘of the second’, etc when blazoning arms.

Not just American armorists, is it?  I thought the College and Lyon Office had abandoned this traditional style as well.  No?

As someone who has not been following this conversation much at all, I simply wanted to say that I find design one (tower sans stars) and design three very striking. Wonderful work. My personal preference is no. 3 because it just seems the most unique of the two.

What if you changed the dovetails in no. 3 to simply embattled. You could pick up the enclosure/castle/stand-your-ground reference while still leaving the partition a carpentry-like shape. The symbolism of the triangular shape of the dovetail, I imagine can be transferred to the triangular arrangement of the three stars gules.

If Hagen means "enclosure," a better canting charge might be an actual enclosure.  I can’t remember the heraldic term (maybe "an enclosure"), but it’s a circular fence, like the one in which the unicorn is penned in the famous tapestry:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/medny/albertc.jpg

In the 17th century Netherlands, this device was used to denote a garden secured against outside intrusion, sometimes with the Dutch lion inside or outside guarding the gate.

If the family were carpenters, a wooden enclosure might be more allusive than a stone one.  Put the three stars for the Trinity inside and it can also signify defense of the faith.