Latin—> English Translation

 
Alexander Schrenk
 
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Alexander Schrenk
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01 November 2013 01:55
 

Nick B II;100947 wrote:

The literal translation seems to be "You good virtues always come back." Re seems to be second person imperative of "reor," a verb related to coming back both physically and mentally. "Virtus bona" has to be vocative (otherwise they have to be nominative, which doesn’t fit with the verb), so the second person the motto is talking to has to be "good virtue." Diu is an adverb that means basically forever.

Or at least that’s what I’ve cobbled together from a combination of rusty Latin, Tufts dictionary, google translate, and several wikipedia pages.

 

I have no idea if there’s a good way to render this in English. The sentiment is neatly captured by the phrase "good ideas never go out of style," but that’s a much different way to say it then "Virtus diu re bona."

Nick B II;100948 wrote:

That’s a grammatical possibility. But it doesn’t sound like a very motto-ey sentiment. What’s it getting at—that if you find one virtuous/manly/etc. thing it will be a good thing for a long time?

That’s the problem with an inflected language, and very little context. Grammatically "Re" could be a couple things, and depending on what it is the rest of the words change in meaning. It doesn’t help that it’s entirely possible the motto-writer had no clue what he was doing.


Yes, this is a weird one.

 

"Re," however, can only be "res" in the ablative singular. The imperative of reor is "rere," and I don’t think that is ever used anyhow. There is no verb in this sentence besides an understood esse.

 

You are right about virtus being feminine, and bona probably goes with it. The idea of it being vocative, however, seems very unlikely to me.

 

Taking all that into account, here’s a better possibility:

 

Virtue is always in a good thing.

 

The only problem, and what’s throwing me off the most, is diu. It means "all day long" or "for a long time," not really "always." A strange choice.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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01 November 2013 09:47
 

How about "Virtue is a good that lasts," or (in modern economic terms) "Virtue is a durable good?"

Alternatively, I’ve found various old books online that translate the phrase "re bona" as "prosperity."  So this would suggest something like "Virtue [is?][produces?] lasting prosperity."

 
Nick B II
 
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Nick B II
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01 November 2013 16:49
 

The imperative of reor depends on the source. According to Tufts, "re" can be the imperative of reor. It also lists a third potential candidate, the vocative for rus.

Joe’s actually kinda showing why I doubt it’s the ablative of re. An ablative re just doesn’t fit into the sentence. "Virtus diu bona" would clearly mean something like "Good virtue is everlasting," which is an excellent motto. But if you add in an ablative it gets weird. "Re" is a pronoun that means all kinds of stuff/affairs/business. "Good virtue is everlasting by (means/cause/place) of stuff/affair/business" just doesn’t make much sense.

 

Altho maybe your first instinct was right, and both bona and re are ablative. In that case it would literally mean something like "Virtue is everlasting by means of good stuff/affairs/business." Less awkwardly "Virtue is everlasting because of good business." ie: virtue is what has historically led to good results in business/public affairs/etc.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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01 November 2013 17:33
 

Perhaps the thought is "Virtue pays off in the long run."

 
Alexander Liptak
 
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Alexander Liptak
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08 November 2013 07:41
 

Rather than post another thread, I thought I would attach this here; could someone provide a Latin translation for "My pain is my pleasure and my pleasure is my pain". It will be the motto for a friend’s coat of arms. From what I could piece together, I got " Dolor meus mea voluptas, et voluptas mea est dolor meus".

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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14 November 2013 15:54
 

Sounds like the motto for the Marquis de Sade!  smile

 
JamesD
 
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JamesD
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15 November 2013 10:41
 

Michael F. McCartney;101009 wrote:

Sounds like the motto for the Marquis de Sade!  wink ), Leopold von Sacher-Masoch!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_von_Sacher-Masoch

 
Guy Power
 
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Guy Power
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15 November 2013 12:02
 

JamesD;101015 wrote:

Or, perhaps even more to the point ( wink ), Leopold von Sacher-Masoch!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_von_Sacher-Masoch


OUCH!  That hurt ..... [thank-you-very-much…may-I-have-another?]

 
JamesD
 
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15 November 2013 13:09
 

Guy Power;101016 wrote:

OUCH!  That hurt ..... [thank-you-very-much…may-I-have-another?]

smile  I have just won a moderate sized bet with myself that you would be the first to take the bait, Guy!

In order to bring this post back onto the heraldic track, I tried to find the v. Sacher-Masoch coat of arms but with no success. If anyone can do better, I would welcome seeing it.

 
James Dempster
 
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James Dempster
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15 November 2013 14:57
 

Just to sidetrack things again, but an interesting piece of trivia nonetheless. I recently found out (the UK version of Who Do You Think You Are?) that Marianne Faithful’s mother was a von Sacher-Masoch, making her a great-great niece of Leopold von Sacher-Masoch.

James

 
JamesD
 
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JamesD
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15 November 2013 16:01
 

James Dempster;101019 wrote:

Just to sidetrack things again, but an interesting piece of trivia nonetheless. I recently found out (the UK version of Who Do You Think You Are?) that Marianne Faithful’s mother was a von Sacher-Masoch, making her a great-great niece of Leopold von Sacher-Masoch.

Of which, Herr Doktor Freud would make much, I’ll be bound!

 
Guy Power
 
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Guy Power
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15 November 2013 20:16
 

JamesD;101017 wrote:

smile  I have just won a moderate sized bet with myself that you would be the first to take the bait, Guy!

In order to bring this post back onto the heraldic track, I tried to find the v. Sacher-Masoch coat of arms but with no success. If anyone can do better, I would welcome seeing it.


This is gonna be painful!


Quote:

Das Wappen der Sacher-Masoch ist ein quadrirter Schild. 1 und 4: in Blau ein einwärts aufsteigender goldener Löwe mit offenem Rachen, ausgeschlagener rother Zunge, hinten über sich gebogenem Schwanze, der die äußere Pranke vor sich gestreckt und in der andern eine silberne Krone empor hält; 2 und 3: in Roth eine silberne Krone. Auf dem Schilde ruhen zwei gekrönte Turnierhelme; aus der Krone des rechten Helms wächst der goldene Löwe von 1 und 4, aus der Krone des linken wallen drei Straußenfedern, eine silberne zwischen rothen, empor. Die Helmdecken des rechten Helms sind blau mit Gold, jene des linken roth mit Silber unterlegt. – Das der zweitgenannten Familie ist ein quergetheilter Schild, im oberen blauen Felde eine goldene Korngarbe, im unteren rothen Felde ein bergmännsicher Hammer und Schlägel, in Form eines Andreaskreuzes gelegt und darüber ein silberner Salzküffel.

Source


Google Translate:

The coat of arms of Sacher-Masoch is a quadrirter plate. 1 and 4 in blue an inwardly ascending [rampant?] golden lion with open jaws, knocked-out-red tongue back over to curved tail that stretched the outer paw in front of him, holding up a silver crown in the other, 2 and 3: in Roth [Red], a silver crown. Shields resting on the two winning tournament helmets, from the crown of the right helmet grows the golden lion of 1 and 4, from the crown of the left undulate three ostrich feathers, a silver between red, upward. The helmet covers the right helmet is blue with gold, that of the left red highlighted with silver. - The second form of the family is a quergetheilter sign in the upper blue field a golden sheaf of corn, the lower red field bergmännsicher a hammer and mallet, placed in the form of a St. Andrew’s Cross and also a silver Salzküffel.

 

—Guy

 
Guy Power
 
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Guy Power
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15 November 2013 20:21
 

JamesD;101020 wrote:

... I’ll be bound!


HUSH your mouth!!!

 

[this is getting out of hand]

 
JamesD
 
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JamesD
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16 November 2013 06:23
 

Guy Power;101022 wrote:

Google Translate:

The coat of arms of Sacher-Masoch is a quadrirter plate. 1 and 4 in blue an inwardly ascending [rampant?] golden lion with open jaws, knocked-out-red tongue back over to curved tail that stretched the outer paw in front of him, holding up a silver crown in the other, 2 and 3: in Roth [Red], a silver crown. Shields resting on the two winning tournament helmets, from the crown of the right helmet grows the golden lion of 1 and 4, from the crown of the left undulate three ostrich feathers, a silver between red, upward. The helmet covers the right helmet is blue with gold, that of the left red highlighted with silver. - The second form of the family is a quergetheilter sign in the upper blue field a golden sheaf of corn, the lower red field bergmännsicher a hammer and mallet, placed in the form of a St. Andrew’s Cross and also a silver Salzküffel.—Guy

Thanks for that, Guy. I can just about imagine what this might look like. As someone once said, "we’ve seen worse" wink

 
JamesD
 
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JamesD
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16 November 2013 06:26
 

Guy Power;101023 wrote:

HUSH your mouth!!!

Well spotted - again!


Guy Power;101023 wrote:

[this is getting out of hand]

McCartney started it! In any event, I am withdrawing from this particular field of battle before the mods have an attack of the vapours (smelling salts, anyone?).