Question on Clerical headgear.

 
harold cannon
 
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harold cannon
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27 November 2012 12:52
 

I recently had John Gaylor do some streamers for me and he also did a rendering of my arms. He found out that I am Chief Chaplain for my County Fire Service and he included 2 versions with clerical headgear. I have never had this done before and would appreciate someone shedding some light on this subject for me.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8479/8224818556_6eff49d371_b.jpg

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8350/8224818594_28faa40837_b.jpg

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8062/8224818638_81aaeb5351_b.jpg

 
steven harris
 
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steven harris
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27 November 2012 14:07
 

If "Chief Chaplain" is a volunteer position, and you are not ordained in the Church, then I would advise against using the tasseled galero, or the geneva bonnet (I think that it’s called), altogether.

If you are ordained as deacon, priest, or bishop, then you can make use of those galeri as is suitable.

 
harold cannon
 
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harold cannon
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27 November 2012 14:24
 

I am ordained as a Christian chaplain but am non-denominational in my position. Many of our chaplains are as we see to all denominations in the fire service. I have the full range under my care from Catholic firefighters, Jewish firefighters, to even a few that do not believe at all. Our job is to help those who help others no matter what their religious affiliation. Some see this as wrong but I am to love the sinner as I do the saint and that means being there for everyone when they need support after a bad call or maybe when thay are just having a rough time in life.

Like I said this is the first time that I have ever encountered religious additions when in reguard to my C.O.A.

 

To be honest I have thought of having a version with my helmet done in place of the crest. LOL! I don’t know how well that would go over though.

 
steven harris
 
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steven harris
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27 November 2012 14:58
 

I would use whatever ecclesiastical headwear that your denomination prescribes for your level of ordination.  No need to reinvent the wheel.

 
harold cannon
 
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harold cannon
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27 November 2012 15:09
 

Here is what John had to say on the subject:

"As to the clerical headgear, the broad hat with tassels is based on Roman Catholic heraldry and is used mostly by clergy of episcopal churches. Black hats are for priests, green for bishops and archbishops, and red for cardinals. The number of tassels depends on rank: one each side for a priest, two for a dean, three for a canon, six for a bishop, fifteen for an archbishop or a cardinal, and the colours can vary too. It all becomes very complicated, and no one really can remember the minutiae. Having looked them up, I think I gave you the wrong number of tassels! In Scottish heraldry, the hats (without the more complicated bits and pieces) are black and used for all clergy, whatever their denomination. Presbyterian ministers quite often prefer to use the Geneva bonnet as being more appropriate to those of the Calvinist persuasion. My daughter, when a student at Oxford University, wore a Geneva bonnet instead of a mortarboard. It was a soft cap, and therefore easier to stuff into a bag when not being worn.

 

Only in the US would one find chaplains to the fire service. Despite the fierce separation of church and state, religion plays a much greater part in public affairs with you than it does with us. We are much too secular, I think.

 

Yours aye,

 

John"

 

 

If what he says is true then would I use it minus the tassels and cords? Needless to say it is all a little confusing! To be honest I am a bigger fan of the Geneva Bonnet!

 
Dcgb7f
 
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Dcgb7f
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27 November 2012 15:35
 

A slight distinction might be helpful to clarify the question. The clerical ornaments don’t refer to whom you minister, but rather to whom you belong. I’ll take a Catholic priest serving as a chaplain in the US army as an example. It’s not unusual that these priests minister to others not just Catholics, especially in the field where other chaplains are not around. That doesn’t make him a non-denominational Christian; he still is a Catholic priest. If he were to bear arms, he’d display a galero as establish by Catholic heraldic practice.

In your case, I don’t know what your "native" denomination is. If your denomination has a tradition, then I’d employ that. Otherwise, I would advise against it, since you’d be—forgive the word choice—in effect hijacking another religion/denomination’s tradition for your own… for example, heradicly claiming you’re a Catholic priest when you are not one in reality. It’d be akin to placing a crown on top of your shield.

 

I’m temporarily without access to my library, but from what I remember the Lord Lyon developed a schema for the Presbyterian Church of Scotland using the geneva bonnet because of the Kirk’s ties to John Calvin in Geneva. The College of Arms developed a schema for Anglican clergy using the Catholic schema as the starting point. I don’t remember if any other Christian churches have a system of ornaments, but there is not generic, non-denominational schema of heraldic ornaments. Moreover, many Christian denominations today do not recognize a fundamental, and not a simply functional, difference between clergy (ordained ministers) and layperson. If one belongs to one of these denominations, I would think that it’d be disrespectful of one’s own religious tradition to heraldicly draw distinctions where the denomination itself wouldn’t.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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27 November 2012 15:35
 

The question of heraldic headgear pops up from time to time.  My take FWIW would be:

* if you are ordained by a denomination that historically uses some form(s) of clerical headgear, follow that tradition.  In the US, that’s RC & some Episcopal churches—maybe also Eastern Orthodox.

* if you are ordained by a denomination in the US that doesn’t formally regulate clerical headgear then:

* if it is an Episcopal church (there are dozens of split-off groups) that ordains "priests" then consider traditional Episcopal practice.

* if it is a Presbyterian or Reformed church (again, there are several) that ordains "ministers of the word" or "teaching elders" then consider the Scots Presbyterian practice (i.e. Geneva bonnet)

* if it’s a Methodist church, consider a simple black hat with a frayed knot rather than fancy tassels on the cords (reminiscent of Methodist circuit riders on the frontier—you can search rec.heraldry Google group for the discussion of this possibility—NOTE that while meaningful here, apparently it doesn’t "translate" well historically outside the US.

* for other Protestant churches, consider the Scots practice of a black hat & cords allowed for any ordained minister; or if there is a denominational history similar to the Methodist circuit riders, consider the option above.

Note however that "chaplains" who are not ordained clergy historically haven’t used any special form of headgear.  With the non-denominational nature of many chaplaincies, such as yours with the fire service, the use of any special clerical headgear by chaplains who aren’t ordained priests or ministers of the word (the terms vary) probably isn’t useful in that it puts a denominational tag on what should be a non-denominational post.

 

Others may view the topic somewhat (or greatly) differently.

 
harold cannon
 
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harold cannon
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27 November 2012 16:33
 

This is very helpful. I would still love to hear more discussion on the topic though. I always like to learn about new things.

 
steven harris
 
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27 November 2012 18:17
Dcgb7f
 
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Dcgb7f
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27 November 2012 21:36
gselvester
 
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gselvester
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28 November 2012 03:28
 

harold cannon;96633 wrote:

Here is what John had to say on the subject:

"...It all becomes very complicated, and no one really can remember the minutiae…"


I can…all the time.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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28 November 2012 08:35
 

harold cannon;96633 wrote:

Here is what John had to say on the subject:

"Only in the US would one find chaplains to the fire service…

"

Which makes one wonder who who attends the annual conference of the Fire and Rescue Service Chaplains Association at the Fire Service College, Moreton-in-Marsh, Gloucs.

 

http://www.fireservicecollege.ac.uk/events/annual-fire-and-rescue-service-chaplains’-association.aspx

 

Even in the anti-clerical French Republic, there is an "Aumônerie catholique de la Brigade de sapeurs pompiers de Paris"  (Catholic Chaplaincy of the Paris Firefighters Brigade).  To make this somewhat heraldic, the Aumônerie even has its own fanion, or unit flag:

 

http://www.aumoneriecatholiquebspp.fr/images/fanion1.jpg

 
harold cannon
 
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harold cannon
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28 November 2012 11:17
 

I have thought of doing a version of my arms where is has my helmet on top as well as a crossed shepherd’s crook and fire axe like on my helmet shield behind my arms.

This would be for my personal enjoyment. Below you can see my helmet.

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8202/8227541492_e4c30fbb25.jpg

 

Just FYI the crazy vest and equipment was because I was running command on a training burn that day.

 
Guy Power
 
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Guy Power
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28 November 2012 11:56
 

Why not a fireman’s helmet with your chaplain’s shield?

Or, (I think it was Mike’s idea ages ago) ... why not the American standard "circuit rider" hat:

 

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_AKFBw6OBTkCmWoeaGqSEYc-xkEZVA3-yCyC8CQtUPGflng1D5Q

 

Motto: "Nothing like a good piece of hickory"

 

—Guy

 
harold cannon
 
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harold cannon
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28 November 2012 12:22
 

I actually like both the rider’s hat and my helmet so May have to do one of each. LOL!

 
harold cannon
 
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harold cannon
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28 November 2012 14:40
 

Here is another one that John did. I have never seen this type of headgear before. I do like the shape of the shield though.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8479/8226973663_1406a6e6f8_b.jpg