harold cannon;96654 wrote:

Here is another one that John did. I have never seen this type of headgear before.

This is the Geneva bonnet John was talking about, as worn by John Calvin, John Knox and many of the other reformers.

http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/C/John-Calvin-9235788-1-402.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/JohnKnox.jpg

Thanks Joseph! It just looked a lot different to me than the first Geneva bonnet John did. I rather like the riders hat though. As my endorsement of my ordination is through The Salvation Army church (which William Booth a Methodist founded) The nearest would be the riders hat. What say you?

Got another motto to go along with your circuit rider hat here; marker 2:20 (full-length movie time log @ 0:15:41).

[bypass the commercial]

"You shouldn’t play with matches."

Harold,

As far as the Methodist circuit rider’s hat is concerned, I think you’d probably be the first.  The idea has been bruited about here from time to time, but as far as I know no one has ever actually used it.

Well there has to be a first for everything. LOL!

harold cannon;96656 wrote:

Thanks Joseph! It just looked a lot different to me than the first Geneva bonnet John did. I rather like the riders hat though. As my endorsement of my ordination is through The Salvation Army church (which William Booth a Methodist founded) The nearest would be the riders hat. What say you?

I always thought that The Salvation Army was just a faith-based charity; I did not know that it was a full-fledge denomination, complete with an ordained clergy all of its own.  If The Salvation Army does not have a heraldic tradition of its own, and if it is an offshoot of the mainstream Methodist theology, then I think that it would be most logical to follow the Methodist practices.

Steven dont feel bad hardly anybody seems to know about the Salvation Army church. LOL!!!

We attend a Methodist church, & both of our daughters when teens worked as babysitters at a Salvation Army church in the area, so I was aware of the connection.  I don’t know, however, if the Salvation Army folks—while an off-shoot of Methodism—ever actually had a circuit-rider tradition of their own; or if perhaps there might have been some other traditional practice that might be adaptable to your purposes.  All I’ve ever seen has been Salvation Army folks in essentially military uniforms.

As to the circuit riders hat—Joe is correct in that it hasn’t AFAIK ever been actually used; but it was discussed at some length on rec.heraldry with IIRC several participants with circuit-rider roots (descendants of Methodist preachers) who, at least in those discussions, thought it was a good idea.  I’ve done the usual doodling but never actually pursued it with any of our pastors.

Since it’s essentially an adaptation of a simple galero, you could just consider it as an exercise in artistic license.

Michael F. McCartney;96662 wrote:

I don’t know, however, if the Salvation Army folks—while an off-shoot of Methodism—ever actually had a circuit-rider tradition of their own; or if perhaps there might have been some other traditional practice that might be adaptable to your purposes. All I’ve ever seen has been Salvation Army folks in essentially military uniforms.

And of course the quintessential military headgear is the helmet.  Back full circle.

Dear Harold, I wonder if you wear any specifically clerical headgear or vestment or vestment’s element. Probably not? If you do, it could be discussed, with a proper caution, as a potential attribute. Say, I never met a collar borne as a Halskleinod but this could be thought about, maybe only to reject.

We don’t really wear vestments. We have a uniform that we wear but the headgear is either our fire helmet or our uniform hat. The Salvation Army also has a uniform for both soilders (laymen) and officers (pastors). The only thing different between officers and soilders is the uniform trim. It really does get complicated but I am leaning towards the Methodist riding hat if I do decide to use anything because I feel a military style hat would look way out of place.

harold cannon;96669 wrote:

We don’t really wear vestments. We have a uniform that we wear but the headgear is either our fire helmet or our uniform hat. The Salvation Army also has a uniform for both soilders (laymen) and officers (pastors). The only thing different between officers and soilders is the uniform trim. It really does get complicated but I am leaning towards the Methodist riding hat if I do decide to use anything because I feel a military style hat would look way out of place.

Since you’re venturing into unspoiled heraldic territory, you may have a superlatively unique opportunity here!

You could familiarize yourself with the heraldic traditions of the various denominations out there (there really aren’t that many, and I’m sure that there is a great deal of overlay and interrelation).  Then, you could use that knowledge, alongside your familiarity with the SA Church, to devise a new heraldic paradigm for your Chruch, respecting the traditions and standards that already exist.

Once you’ve filled in all the steps – essentially boiled down to who (by rank, degree, whathaveyou) wears what (style of heraldic headwear) – then you’ll be all set to know what you yourself are entitled to use.

What a great project it could be!!

... or not ...

Some form of relatively simple, optional, non-hierarchical clerical heraldic headgear for ministers/pastors/whatever in various US denominations is one thing.

But to the best of my recollection, no one here (US) has seriously, or even semi-seriously, advocated for a hierarchical system of clerical headgear for the myriad (hundreds—there really are that many!) of more-or-less Protestant denominations, other than those e.g. Episcopalians & other Anglicans, who derive their structures & traditions from one of the historical Old World hierarchical "mother" churches.

For those denominations which have chosen to organize, see, and present themselves as non-hierarchical—i.e. the majority here—a hierarchical hat system would at best ignore, and at worst repudiate, an essential aspect of their theology and identity.

Not that it might not be a fun fantasy exercise, but IMO clearly "not ready for prime time" this side of the pond.

harold cannon;96669 wrote:

It really does get complicated but I am leaning towards the Methodist riding hat if I do decide to use anything because I feel a military style hat would look way out of place.

You feel a military style hat would look out of place in a coat of arms? That’s odd. Everything else in a coat of arms is martial.

Here’s the thing about all of this:  arms look silly when they contain glaring anachronisms.  Yes, heraldry is itself anachronistic, but internally it should strive not to be.  The Catholic galeri (and the Anglican hats patterned after them) work well in arms because they come from the same period as arms, specifically the 13th century, the same period as the great helm.

The Geneva cap is a bit late to be truly medieval—John Knox returned to Scotland from Geneva in 1559—but at least it’s from a period when the visored armet was still in use.  In any case by the time it was introduced into heraldry by Lyon Innes of Learney it was sufficiently archaic to seem acceptable.  (I expect that if someone had suggested using it in lieu of the galero circa 1560, the idea would have seemed ridiculous.)

Which is a long way of getting back to my previous point.  The military "hat" appropriate to a coat of arms is a helmet.  The kind worn no later than the mid-1500s.