Looking for some blazoning help…

 
mjsmith
 
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mjsmith
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04 December 2012 21:05
 

I’ve got a friend who is interested in assuming arms.  I’ve gotten some some input from him as to what he wants the arms to represent to him as well as just various colors and charges that appeal to him.  So with that in mind I drew up some arms for him to chew on but I need to make sure I am not completely butchering the blazons.  Any help would be greatly appreciated

http://www.thesupertribe.com/images/CoA1234.jpg

 

Here’s what I have for blazons thus far.

 

#1 is blazoned: Per Bend Tenne & Argent, A Bend Counterchanged between a Stag Rampant Argent and three Cross Crosslets Fitchee Sable.

 

#2 is blazoned: Azure a Stag Rampant Argent in a Chief Triangular Argent a Chough Migrant Sable.

 

#3 is blazoned: Per Chevron Azure and Argent, a Chevron counterchanged between two cross crosslets fitchee’ Argent and a Panther Rampant Sable langued gules.

 

#4 is blazoned: Per fess Tenne and argent a fess per fess argent and sable between a bear passant argent and a cross crosslet fitchee sable.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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04 December 2012 22:21
 

Except for "a chief triangular" & a "chough migrant" in blazon #2, the blazons seem sufficient to picture & recreate the arms.  Not sure just what the triangular chief & bird should properly be blazoned—I can imagine the chief triangular being interpreted as a triangle in chief, & the bird as flying (migrating) to dexter.  (#2 is also my least favorite of the four, but that’s another argument for another day.)

I’m not a stickler for the proper textbook terms so long as the words used give me a clear picture

 

The designs are all interesting, & I rather like the parted bend, chevron & fess—they add a bit of visual interest, & likely a bit of uniqueness, without overly cluttering the otherwise clean designs.  One wonders (and can’t help but ask) about the "story" behind each design.

 
Dcgb7f
 
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Dcgb7f
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04 December 2012 23:22
 

That triangle thing looks like a pile.

The bird is a good one though. Displayed doesn’t seem to do it. I think you’re going to have to use some long winded description. Though honestly, you should just call it displayed and be done with it.

 

So maybe something like "Azure a stag rampant argent on a pile argent the underside profile of a chough in full flight sable".

 
steven harris
 
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steven harris
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05 December 2012 06:30
 

I think that the field on #2 is too short to be called a pile, I might call it “per chevron reversed”.  The attitude of the bird is indeed a bit tricky; perhaps something like “volant to chief” could work?

All of these are good and clean designs.  Well done.

 

EDIT

I did find a reference to "migrant" - defined as: "a bird in flight palewise, viewed from the top (similar to tergiant). This appears to be an SCA invention, and it is virtually indistinguishable from displayed."

 

see: http://dragon_azure.tripod.com/UoA/AnimalBlazonry.html

 
Richard G.
 
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Richard G.
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05 December 2012 09:13
 

Nice designs! I’m partial to 1 and 3. Is there a particular reason for the cross crosslets?

 
werewolves
 
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werewolves
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05 December 2012 11:41
 

Perhaps the triangular chief would be "a pile diminished"?

Also, just to be "that guy" I’ll recommend that you drop the tenne and just go with gules.  Leave the rendering in orange to the artist.

 

Nice, clean designs BTW.

 
steven harris
 
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steven harris
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05 December 2012 11:57
 

werewolves;96723 wrote:

Also, just to be "that guy" I’ll recommend that you drop the tenne and just go with gules.  Leave the rendering in orange to the artist.

I try to stay away from the non-standard tinctures (like buff, carnation, celeste, cendrée, copper, murrey, rose, sanguine, and tenné), but if an armiger has his heart set on one, and if it stands out well on the shield (I think that tenné and argent do well here), then we shouldn’t disallow it.  They might not be our first choice, and they might not be common in English-speaking heraldry, but they do exist.

Arms of the 324th Signal Battalion, Fort Gordon, Augusta GA

 

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/ImageProxy.ashx?n=1&t=150&id=7781

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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05 December 2012 16:05
 

Steven notes, "I did find a reference to ‘migrant’ - defined as: "a bird in flight palewise, viewed from the top (similar to tergiant). This appears to be an SCA invention, and it is virtually indistinguishable from displayed." (with a link to an SCA-related site)

On the one hand, the SCA is a numerically significant presence in heraldry.  On the other hand, if a term they coin hasn’t established itself beyond the SCA—i.e. if non-SCA types aren’t familiar with it—then it’s of limited usefulness, unless the meaning is so obvious as to not need explaining.  I don’t think "migrant" is self-explanatory—it is at best suggestive but open IMO to too broad a range of depictions by non-SCA readers.

 

I also don’t agree with the linked website that the SCA term "migrant" is "virtually indistinguishable from displayed" —(but if that were true, then the term "migrant" would be unnecessary).  At most, the SCA might choose to treat "migrant" and "displayed" as too similar to constitute a distinct element in a new SCA design—their society, their needs & preferences, their rules; but that is a bit too fussy for non-SCA heraldry which treats creatures guardant and reguardant as distinct from each other and from the same creature in the default mode, with its head facing dexter.

 

Thus "displayed" has, as a default, the bird’s head turned to the dexter, but the head can be guardant or regardant if specified in the blazon.  The image given for "migrant" has the head pointing skyward, so it clearly isn’t "displayed" unless one adds qualifying language referring to the skyward orientation of the head.

 

At least that’s how I see it.

 
mjsmith
 
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mjsmith
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05 December 2012 16:53
 

Thanks to everyone for your replies and advice.  I’ll catch you up on the process to date.  I’ve got a group of friends that I have been online gaming with for almost 13 years now.  I documented my own journey towards becoming an armiger with them and as a result some others have been inspired to take up arms of their own.  These particular designs are concepts for one of those friends.  His last name is Ezell and like most people assumed that the bucket shop arms were his "family crest".

I spent some time talking with him about what he wanted his arms to represent to him.  I talked about maybe incorporating something about his home or specific aspects of his family into his arms.  Eventually, I sent him to the American College of Heraldry’s page on traditional heraldic meanings just to help him along.  In the end he came up with the virtues of truth, loyalty, fortitude, peace, leadership and faith in God as his focus on what he wanted his arms to mean to him.

 

With all that in mind the first list of charges that he gave me included a column (which came from the traditional Ezell arms he was familiar with), a chain around the column, a couple of stags supporting the column (respectant), the chough in flight above the column.  For a crest he had the idea of an armored arm embowed holding a lit candle.  As a courtesy I put together some clip art to show him what that might look like.

 

I explained to him again that arms were originally intended to be used as a form of battlefield indentification and that at a distance no one would be able to even see what was going on there.  Thankfully he agreed with me that there was just way too much going on there, not to mention the obvious (and intentional) breaking of the tincture rule.

 

Next I asked him to pinpoint what each of these charges meant to him.  Through this I found out that he was focusing on the column not because he liked it or because it held any special meaning but just that it had been on those Ezell arms.  I then shared what I had discovered in my own research.  It seemed to me that a great many arms associated with the name Smith follow the pattern {Tincture} on a chevron {tincture} three {charges} between three {other charges}.  Its a reoccuring theme and even our own Michael Smith following that pattern with his excellent arms.  Is it bad? Absolutely not, it is an elegant design pattern and I even flirted with it myself.  In the end though the arms I assumed just appealed to me the most.

 

So, once we did away with that formality, I asked him to list out colors, animals, shapes he was fond of.  Of the original set of charges, the column was dropped, as was the arm and the candle.  To that he added the bear and most especially big cats.  As to the colors, he is partial to azure, tenne, argent and, sable in that order.  He is pretty much dead set against the use of gules.  To quote him "not that red makes me physically ill, its just uncomfortable to me on some subconcious level".

 

As to the chough, he stated that he’s not all that fond of birds and didn’t want one at all if it was in any other attutude than flying because it would look just too "bird-like".  So the use of the triangular chief or stunted pile or inverted chevron or whatever it is was an attempt to incorporate the chough as an optional design without making it overly prominent on the arms.  I wasn’t sure what to call the attitude but I rather like it for a non-predatory bird.  To me "displayed" just lends itself to birds of prey by displaying their beak and talons and demonstrating their power.  I’d still be interested in hearing more opinions on that though for future use.

 

My friend mentioned several times about his Christian faith.  That’s where the cross crosslets fitchee entered into the design.  For #1, I used them as a counter-balance to the stag.  For #3 and #4 I basically used them as a space filler for now as a point of discussion.  However, my friend has informed me that he has actually taken quite a liking to #3.  So we’ll probably use that as a development point and expand to the crest based on that.  I’ll draw up a nicer version of it and have him do the "fridge test" with it.

 

I was concerned about the counterchanged chevrons not wanting to go with something too different but after drawing that one up as "per chevron", the counterchanging just jumped out on its own.  I’m not sure how I feel about what I did on #4 with the alternate coloring but its not an overly cluttered design.  I try to follow that principle in my civil design work so I figure it would apply here as well.

 

Thank you all for taking a look and for the discussion.  I greatly appreciate it.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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05 December 2012 21:21
 

Thanks for the background info.  Your friend’s preference for #3, IMO, suggests that he has good taste! smile

It would be interesting to look into the name Ezell—I assume German?—to see if it have any meaning that might (or might not) suggest some charge or design element for the shield and/or crest.

 
mjsmith
 
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mjsmith
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05 December 2012 22:15
 

We’ve looked into it some but nothing extensive.  Here’s one quote about the name.


Quote:

The meaning of the name Ezell:

#1) English: of unknown origin. The name was well established in the Carolinas by the mid 18th century. In one branch of the family the name was changed to Israel; this is a derivative, not the origin.

#2) Americanized form (under French influence) of German Esel, a nickname from Middle High German esel ‘donkey’.

 

Dictionary of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, Mar 2003


He may very well be a descendant of the Ezells from the Carolinas.  His family has been in Georgia for several generations and his ancestors may have migrated (as mine did) from South Carolina.

 

I’m not sure how partial he is to the use of a donkey in his crest though but if anyone has any thoughts we’re at that point in the design process while he mulls the shield over for a while.

 
steven harris
 
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steven harris
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06 December 2012 06:23
 

If he’s not too keen on a donkey, perhaps a different member of the genus Equus would be to his liking and still serve as a nod to the intended cant.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Mules_and_donkeys_in_heraldry

 
Richard G.
 
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06 December 2012 17:00
 
 
Kathy McClurg
 
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08 December 2012 06:55
 

I like the first one a great deal after having gone back to the pictures several times.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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08 December 2012 07:57
 

mjsmith;96727 wrote:

I then shared what I had discovered in my own research. It seemed to me that a great many arms associated with the name Smith follow the pattern {Tincture} on a chevron {tincture} three {charges} between three {other charges}. Its a reoccuring theme ...


Indeed it is, but not just for the name Smith.  Triads are so common in British and French heraldry as to be a cliche.

 

The ancestors of the vast majority of the numerous Ezells in the American South were in Surry County, Va., on the south side of the James River by the 1650s/60s, which means the name is almost certainly of English origin.  The name also appears by various spellings in a handful of families in the west country counties of Somerset, Wiltshire, and Gloucestershire in 19th century British censuses.

 

So where does this lead us?  I’m not particularly taken with any of the drafts.  I find the bird "migrant" an appealing charge, however—too bad the client isn’t particularly into birds.  Stags are always nice, though.  Have you considered the stag of St. Hubert (or St. Eustace), a stag with a cross between the antlers?  Something combining that with birds volant might be interesting.  Given the southward migratory pattern of the Ezells within the US, maybe volant toward the base rather than the chief?

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Saint_eustace.jpg/407px-Saint_eustace.jpg

 
mjsmith
 
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mjsmith
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01 February 2013 16:44
 

I must apologize that I have just let this topic drop off.  I’ve had some serious "prodigal" difficulties the last month or more with my 20-year old son and my hobbies are falling through the cracks.  Here is where I am at with my friends arms.  He seems quite pleased with the achievement.  If it wouldn’t be too much trouble, I would appreciate a final blazon check.  I owed him a proper colored version of the full achievement but I will probably end up drawing the helm, mantling and scroll myself and ditch the clipart before its all said and done.

Shield: Per Chevron Azure and Argent, a Chevron counterchanged between two cross crosslets fitchee’ Argent and a Panther Rampant Sable langued Gules.

 

Crest: Upon a wreath of the colors Argent and Azure, a Demi-panther sable langued Gules holding in its Dexter paw a lit torch Or and charged on its shoulder with an 8-pointed compass star Argent

 

Motto: Depend on Me

 

Thank you in advance for your replies and advice.

 

http://www.thesupertribe.com/images/EzellArms.jpg

 

Here is a link to a PDF version if you’d like a better view…