Understanding the basic furs - ermine, vair, etc - I’m curious the allowance of other furs in heraldry. For example, rabbit/coney fur or even say deer skin/hair. I haven’t come across anything that says one cant use alternative furs/skins, so I wanted to propose the question to the group.
Hypothetically, if one were to specifically want rabbit hair, would the the blazon be say as "fur of a rabbit", but drawn as ermine being as there is no specific pattern for rabbit?
Additionally, can ermine be ‘dyed’ to be "ermine gules/vert/etc"? I’ve read that vair can changed to any color as long as it is a color and metal, but nothing on changing ermine. Would the color/metal rule apply to ermine if changing from white to gules?
I don’t know about using the furs of other animals, but "ermine" can indeed be any color/tincture combo that you can dream up.
Some have special names, some do not. This one, for example:
is just "Gules ermined Argent".
Argent ermined Sable is "Ermine"
Sable ermined Argent is "Ermines"
Or ermined Sable is "Erminois"
and
Sable ermined Or is "Pean"
"Erminites" is a special type of ermine spot. I have only ever seen it as a black spot with red accents on a white field. Here is an example, on the pall in the personal-side of the impalement:
http://amateurheralds.org/gallery/data/media/2/Rayner_Adel.jpg
I can see no good reason to create new furs - logical, aesthetic, or otherwise.
Ermine and its variants exist because of the way nobles and royals used the contrasting tails of ermine pelts to make attractive and luxurious robes ...
http://www.naergilien.info/research/interesting/ermine/CoronationCloakElizabethII.jpg
Vair and it’s variants simply show the way the backs and bellies of animals could be arranged to make interesting patterns on fur garments ...
http://patrickbaty.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Vair-fur-sml.jpg
What possible reason could there be to add rabbit or deer fur to the heraldic pallet?
an example from the College of Arms (London) - grant dated 10 March 2009 to J.Norman:
http://www.theheraldrysociety.com/membersarms/images/jeremynfnorman.jpg
Arms: Argent Ermined and on a Bend engrailed Vert between two Moorcocks close Sable legged wattled and combed Gules an Ostrich Feather Argent spined Or
Crest: Statant upon a Woodstock Or a Moorcock wings elevated and addorsed Sable legged wattled and combed Gules charged on the breast with a Morion Or holding in the dexter claw an Ostrich Feather erect Argent spined Or
Motto: Lentē Sed Opportūne (Slowly but opportunely)
Besides, doesn’t a fur coat these days risk being defaced by PETA?
Arms: Ermine, defaced Gules
My reasoning for the question was based on the fact that ermine/weasel/stoat fur isn’t something that has a direct relation to everyday life in the United States. I fully understand the heraldric legacy of ermine and vair and there is no reason, outside of personal preference, to include additional furs/hairs/skins into the mix.
But with that being said, are there rules against using non traditional furs in ones arms? I didn’t come across anything in my research and nothing is in the bylaws of the society stating its off limits. Taking on the asumption that its allowable, from a design aspect how would someone draw out something that isn’t ermine or vair?
Granted I know the idea of this is frowned upon greatly and perhaps is viewed as a slap in the face for traditional purposes, but I feel its a valid discussion point especially here in the United States. Rabbit, bison, and deer are more common place in american culture than ermine and its logical that at some point someone will request the use of these alternative skins. Like me, yesterday when I was asked about rabbit fur instead of weasel because he hunts rabbits and is holds more bearing than ermine.
Snyder;97766 wrote:
My reasoning for the question was based on the fact that ermine/weasel/stoat fur isn’t something that has a direct relation to everyday life in the United States.
Everyday life in the United States? This is heraldry we’re talking about, right?
Seriously, the problem is that the recognized furs in heraldry function as tinctures. To add a new fur to the mix is no different than deciding to add new tinctures like vert lima (the color of a lima bean, the green counterpart to everyone’s belove bleu celeste). Or we could invent new names for roundels that are more directly related to everyday life in the United States, like "muscadine" for a roundel purpure.
There is, however, a German fur called Kürsch that might be bendable to your needs. See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kürsch_(Heraldik). The Wappenfibel published by Der Herold says (sorry, I’m too brain dead to venture a translation right now):
"Beim Kürsch (Feh-Wamme) werden die einzelnen Fellstücke natürlich dargestellt."
I’m not trying to upset the balance of heraldic practices and tradition. I fully understand that tinctures and that ermine and vair dominate the furs and I am by no means trying to change that by tacking on a list of additional furs, just posing hypothetical’s to the group and exploring how to go about dealing with a situation where an individual would want the use of alternative furs. Prior to yesterday I didn’t have any consideration for alternative furs, but now the issue has been presented to me and I’m simply look to explore it in depth.
You simply explain to them that the use of non-traditional furs must by necessity be complemented by the non-traditional colors of fuchsia and aqua-marine.
Heraldik Wiki uber Kürsch.
Aber, auf deutsch.
===
[Bracket notes are mine.]
google translation wrote:
Kürsch—also Fehwammen or gray work—belongs, in the heraldry of the heraldic tinctures and is a subset of the heraldic furs represented as flaky, rippled surfaces with corrugated, interlocking lines.
Kürsch provides an out skins [outer skin?] sewn together, smoking product [rauchwaren: tobacconist] , Earlier in the Skinning called Kürsch represent "feh" referred to in the fur trade, the Russian coat of gray squirrel, the dewlap is the white belly fur. Derived from the known heraldic feh [squirrel] in heraldry.
[Feh mistranslates in Google as "error." Feh "refers to the gray winter coat with a white belly of the eastern (Siberian) subspecies of the squirrel."
Rauchwaren is "rauwaren" in Austria:
Quote:
are trimmed tanned not yet gathered to fur pelts. The term is particularly used in the fur trade itself, the singular form of "tobacco product" is seldom used.
The name is derived from the adjective "smoke, rough / rough" from the "hairy, shaggy" as much as is. The term is in this sense from the 16th Century demonstrated, for example, in the tale Allerleirauh. In actual, the former importance Allerleirauh is a composite of various types of fur-like fur part that was used for lining and the outside as embellishment. [1]
In older times, a distinction is not strictly between fur and fur products. Later tried to separate these two concepts from each other. [2]
A fur with dense, flat coat is not tight in the trade as "smoke". The furrier jargon next goodness knows how names on smoke, full of smoke, half-smoke, a little smoke and no smoke. This, certainly more nuancierbaren gradations called "the condition of the hair growth when Entpelzen in relation to the state of full maturity within the same species". [3] The general term used to describe the condition of hair is "Smoke."
Tobacco products are the subject of a global trade, fur trade, or in common language, also called fur trade.
The Preparation of fur, even today under the term fur processing makes the skins tough and workable for furriers. This process is similar to the tannery, except that unlike these remain available at the dressing the hair of the animal fur. The fur is thus the raw material for fur items represent these in turn are sometimes referred to with the term "incense".
—Guy
The German article reference that the fur is meant to resemble the fur of the “Russian Grey Squirrel” (grauen russischen Eichhörnchens). Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the fur Vair meant to be squirrel fur, just like Ermine is meant to be stoat/weasel fur?
If that’s the case, then wouldn’t their Kürsch be the same as our Vair? Perhaps drawn differently, but really the same thing.
Snyder;97768 wrote:
and exploring how to go about dealing with a situation where an individual would want the use of alternative furs.
Easy, you say ‘no’ and suggest and alternative to whatever the symbolism was to be.
Technically speaking, I think the only way you could include other furs is if they are distinctive looking and you could easily identify them. Your earlier example of rabbit wouldn’t work because a) rabbits come in a variety of colors, and b) even if you chose a representative color for rabbits it would most likely be one solid color like white, black or gray.
The only furs that come to mind that would be easily identifiable would be tiger and maybe leopard and jaguar (although not being an expert I probably couldn’t tell a jaguar pelt from a leopard one without the rest of the animal present).
I am perplexed as to why someone would want a particular fur in the first place. I would think rather than the fur of a deer I might simply use a deer.
Quote:
Easy, you say ‘no’ and suggest and alternative to whatever the symbolism was to be.
Naturally, I would say "no, there are rules."
There is no reasoning other than the consideration that someone somewhere would adamantly insist on using some alternative fur for personal reasons regardless of the rules, consequences, or opinions of those in the heraldic community. Unlikely? Very much so. Impossible? No.
Quote:
Technically speaking, I think the only way you could include other furs is if they are distinctive looking and you could easily identify them. Your earlier example of rabbit wouldn’t work because a) rabbits come in a variety of colors, and b) even if you chose a representative color for rabbits it would most likely be one solid color like white, black or gray.
My thought on the matter is that you could add any fur if you specifically stated the common and species name of the fur you were using and then the tincture as appropriate.
Quote:
You simply explain to them that the use of non-traditional furs must by necessity be complemented by the non-traditional colors of fuchsia and aqua-marine.
With some of the people I know, these colors would be acceptable. Tacky, but acceptable. :shock:
Quote:
Seriously, the problem is that the recognized furs in heraldry function as tinctures. To add a new fur to the mix is no different than deciding to add new tinctures like vert lima…
I fully agree with this statement. I don’t propose including new tinctures or new names, it was just a hypothetical thought and the best way to approach the situation if it were to ever arise.
As I started this thread awhile back, I figured it was a good place to post this article that was shared via Facebook today where Coyote fur was used in the crest.
http://reg.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/ProjectPics/v01_20060098_arms_fi.jpg
FIRST NATIONS TAX COMMISSION
Kamloops, British Columbia
Grant of Arms, Supporters, Flag, Badge, Commissioner’s Gavel and Commissioner’s Staff
October 15, 2008
Vol. V, First Nation, p. 1
Blazon
Arms
Or on a torteau a plate dancetty charged with a maple tree issuant from and encircled by an annulus Vert;
Crest
A winter lodge of the Kamloops people set on a headband of coyote fur proper;
Supporters
Dexter an otter gorged with a wreath of fir, sinister a coyote gorged with a wreath of sage, each holding an eagle feather proper and standing on a grassy mount Vert set with a bar wavy Azure fimbriated Argent;
Motto
NESAYKA MAMOOK CHEE WAYHUT;
Symbolism
Arms
The central emblem is that designed for the First Nations Tax Commission (FNTC)’s predecessor body, the Indian Taxation Advisory Board, by Tom Maracle of the Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory. The patterned outer circle represents the jurisdiction of First Nations’ governments. The tree, strong and enduring, is symbolic of life, a habitat of animals and birds, a provider of shelter, heat, medicine, clean air, and soil stability. Its branches and leaves represent First Nations communities and individuals within these communities. As it is a maple, it also represents Canada. The yellow is associated with chalcedony, the east, and illumination. Red is the colour of the north and of spiritual purity. Green is the colour associated with the earth. The arrowhead shape of the shield reminds us of the First Nations way of life, especially related to trade and sustenance, going back countless centuries.
Crest
The winter lodge appears on the coat of arms of the Kamloops Indian Band of the Shuswap Nation, and marks the fact that the FNTC has its head office on the site of this band, a leading First Nations community in the field of real estate development. More generally, as a form of shelter, the winter lodge speaks to the Commission’s role in allowing housing to benefit the community. The coyote fur, in the place of the traditional heraldic wreath, is based on the scouting hat and refers to the Commission’s work in looking ahead and providing for the future.
Supporters
The coyote was sent down by the Creator to teach humans how to develop a society. The otter has intimate knowledge of the worlds of both land and water. Just as the otter is able to move comfortably between two worlds, so too should all people be able to live in the present while at the same time honouring their past and traditions. The feather eagle is an important symbol of authority in First Nations culture. The mount of grass emphasizes the importance of land, and the representation of water refers to the role of water in trade and communications.
Motto
The Chinook motto meaning “We build a new path” refers to the Commission’s role in assisting First Nations governments to develop by means of establishing appropriate systems of property taxation. Chinook, a 19th century trade language used extensively in western Canada and the United States, was spoken by many different First Nations as well as Europeans, Chinese and Hawaiians. It was therefore multicultural and represents communications among First Nations and between First Nations and other cultures.
http://reg.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/project.asp?lang=e&ProjectID=1114&ShowAll=1
