David Boven;99804 wrote:
When President Obama’s library opens in my neighborhood in a few years, I’ll be sure to run over and ask him about his coat of arms…
I actually went to college with someone who now works in the White House. Maybe a quick email wouldn’t hurt. I agree that it’s unlikely used by him… but it’s worth a quick note.
Joseph McMillan;99759 wrote:
Only two, Kennedy and Clinton, both of Irish descent (in Clinton’s case, on his mother’s side).
Obama IS of Irish descent actually. Obviously not entirely..
EDIT: Sorry, someone beat me to it by miles.
Setting aside the authenticity of this design, can anyone explain the crowned helmet? Are we assuming artistic licence?
Mark Olivo;99859 wrote:
Setting aside the authenticity of this design, can anyone explain the crowned helmet? Are we assuming artistic licence?
I’m assuming heraldic incompetence.
Mark Olivo;99858 wrote:
Obama IS of Irish descent actually. Obviously not entirely..
EDIT: Sorry, someone beat me to it by miles.
You mean the O’Bamas aren’t fully Irish?
My point was less about Obama specifically than that the CHI has NOT routinely granted arms to American presidents generally.
Am I missing something? Isn’t he American? Why do foreign government authorities need to get involved?
(I’m not even examining the question whether he even wants or cares for a coat of arms).
kimon;99865 wrote:
Am I missing something? Isn’t he American? Why do foreign government authorities need to get involved?
(I’m not even examining the question whether he even wants or cares for a coat of arms).
Exactly my point of view. When he was elected there was this flurry of hysteria on rec.heraldry (nothing new there) about how maybe the Kenyan College of Arms would grant him arms, with some people urging that the AHS should approach the Kenyans on his behalf to that end.
Apart from the political idiocy of this (had these people never heard of the birther movement?), my position was that the AHS pushing an American president to ask a foreign authority to grant him a coat of arms undermined the basic premise of our organization.
Joseph McMillan;99867 wrote:
Exactly my point of view. When he was elected there was this flurry of hysteria on rec.heraldry (nothing new there) about how maybe the Kenyan College of Arms would grant him arms, with some people urging that the AHS should approach the Kenyans on his behalf to that end.
Apart from the political idiocy of this (had these people never heard of the birther movement?), my position was that the AHS pushing an American president to ask a foreign authority to grant him a coat of arms undermined the basic premise of our organization.
Wouldn’t it be exciting if prominent Americans - including Presidents - one day consulted our little society on the designs of their own arms?
I realize this is a pie-in-the-sky fantasy, but I can imagine TIOH and AHS putting together a small committee of lead heraldists and submitting a joint proposal upon the end of a President’s term, to adopt a shield suggested by the committee.
Mark Olivo;99858 wrote:
Obama IS of Irish descent actually. Obviously not entirely..
EDIT: Sorry, someone beat me to it by miles.
Doesn’t matter. Reagen did not get arms from Ireland. The Irish granted arms to those Presidents because the Irish people really liked those guys, and a Grant of Arms is something unique Ireland can give a person of Irish descent as a thank you. Clinton was thanked because he was an important part of the peace process in Northern Ireland. Kennedy was the first Irish-American president. Maybe if there’s another Irish debt crisis, and Obama bails them out or something, he’ll warrant such a thank you.
He’s more likely to get a grant from the Kenyans, but I’m not sure he’ll want it. He really tries to live the ethic of the "Talented tenth," and a huge part of that ethic is that you always have to be completely beyond reproach. If you do something that could be taken as unpatriotic (ie: accepting a Coat of Arms from another country) you are not beyond reproach, therefore the local racists have a tool to criticize you, therefore instead of being a shining example of how great black people are you are a screw up.
If a bunch of us got together and created a CoA for him, that might work,but there are two problems:
1) A guy who still has to put up with crap from birthers is not likely to accept anything that even looks like an honor most voters don’t have.
2) As Father Guy posted, there’s already a heraldicish logo associated with him, and it’s hard for me to imagine him with another Coat:
http://imageshack.us/a/img560/7941/pw3.gif
But that’s basically his campaign logo, and I’m not sure that it would be tactically wise for him to adopt that as his personal symbol when there’s so much gridlock in DC already. There’s way too much potential for the GOP to spend a day or three musing on the how this reflects Obama’s fundamental nature as a Constant Campaigner we can’t Negotiate With.
2016 or 2017 will be a lot better time for him to think about this.
Nick
Holy moley, discussions are always appreciated but try to contain your political opinions.
Jeremy, it’s my opinion that the fellow you talked to claiming President Obama (or the First Lady) were contemplating assuming any arms (let alone the one’s shown) was either full of it, or himself completely misled.
Well apart from everything else, I think aesthetically they’re very nice. I don’t anticipate seeing this design on the White House china anytime soon, however.
Mark Olivo;99882 wrote:
Well apart from everything else, I think aesthetically they’re very nice. I don’t anticipate seeing this design on the White House china anytime soon, however.
I don’t either. But I am surprised that this shield design hasn’t been used in the past.
I could imagine a conversation between the website’s employees and the Obamas about the appropriateness of the crown, and the website’s employees showing some images of Canadian prime ministers who happened to be lords with coronets and governor generals who often bear a crown as an augmentation or charge in the head of state’s armorial bearings. All in all making a very convincing case to the Obamas about the use of a crown.
Alexander Liptak;99904 wrote:
I could imagine a conversation between the website’s employees and the Obamas about the appropriateness of the crown, and the website’s employees showing some images of Canadian prime ministers who happened to be lords with coronets and governor generals who often bear a crown as an augmentation or charge in the head of state’s armorial bearings. All in all making a very convincing case to the Obamas about the use of a crown.
Only if space pods have taken the place of the real Obamas. No real American politician, let alone one with the acumen it takes to get from the Illinois state legislature to the White House in just four years, would touch a crown with a ten-foot pole, heraldic or otherwise.
By the way, there’s never been a prime minister of Canada who was a lord.
