Orthodox Heraldry

 
Edward Wenzl
 
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Edward Wenzl
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26 June 2006 22:51
 

The American College of Heraldry has an interesting article/propasal on Orthodox Heraldry.  Just go to the homepage and click on Orthodox

Ecclesiastial Heraldry.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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12 July 2006 12:10
 

I have been thinking about this for a while now Ed.

I seem to remember in the very large version of Fox-Davies encyclopedia on heraldry that is in my library systems reference section that there was an Orthodox system. Or, at least, there was for Oriental Catholics (essentially the same thing as the Orthodox Churches - only the Oriental Catholics being in communion with Peter). I remember the designs were really quite nice. I think I will go back and look at it again.

 

Also, I may have missed it and if so sorry, but did the ACH work with several different Orthodox metropolitans, or whatever need be, to come up with their designs?

 

I ask, as here in Colorado we have a Russian Orthodox church, the Greek Orthodox Cathedral (an absolutely beautiful and spectacular building both outside and inside!) and an Ethiopian Orthodox Church in addition to the Maronite, Ukranian-Byzantine and Ruthenian-Byzantine Catholic Churches.

 

I have had the pleasure of visiting their places of worship for what I would call a mass, but for what they called Divine Liturgy - I believe. While there were similarities to each other - and to the Catholic Church - there were also many differences. So, I’m wondering if there wouldn’t be differences in heraldic practices as well.

 

Just curious…if you know…

 

8)

 
Edward Wenzl
 
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Edward Wenzl
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12 July 2006 21:43
 

Thank you, Dennchadh, for your response.  Like you, I believe the ACH developed Arms for several Orthodox Metropolitans.  But the real problem is I don’t keep every issue of Armigers News so I can’t refer back to any specific article.

Should you ever get a moment, look through Dom Gregory Dix’s (IMO the pre-eminate scholar of Liturgy) THE SHAPE OF THE LITURGY.  Theodor Klauser’s

A SHORT HISTORY OF THE WESTERN LITURGY is instructive and for an understanding of Eastern Liturgy page through L.H. Dalmais’ EASTERN LITURGIES.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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12 July 2006 22:58
 

Thanks for the info Ed.

OT—I love the many different forms of the liturgy. Of course I am a Catholic and I am a member of the Roman Church. However, there are several Oriental (Eastern) Catholic Churches here in Colorado - we are quite blessed! - and three Orthodox Churches here as well.

 

I myself enjoy the Novus Ordo Missae twice a month at my official parish and one week at the Latin Mass and one week at the Maronite (Lebanese Catholics) mass.

 

Back on topic—I often see these liturgies and think of the article Fr. Guy posted on the old MB where it showed the use of arms on vestments. I think those were Anglican services, but the good father can correct me if I’m wrong. I rather like that idea. For, in the Catholic and Orthodox traditions I’ve seen many icons on vestments and loved them. I would like to see arms there from time to time as well - like the pics from Fr. Guy on the old MB.

 

I think there can be a place for arms on vestments - at least in the Catholic tradition, as I can’t speak for others.

 

Does anyone know if they use arms in the Orthodox churches on their vestments? Or any of the Protestant denominations either? I think pics of those would be really cool. Of course…I’d like to see those ones Fr. Guy posted before as well. I really liked them.

 

I will have to review that part of the ACH again to see if I can get more info on Orthodox heraldry out of it. I’ll also have to look for the resources you mentioned. Thanks again.

 
Edward Wenzl
 
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Edward Wenzl
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13 July 2006 21:20
 

As far as current usage of arms on vestments goes, I can only think of the Anglican tippet.  The tippet has the CoA of the Diocese or the Seminary from which the priest graduated on it.  Perhaps, pre 1960 English vestments may use a CoA, but I am not aware of that.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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13 July 2006 22:58
 

Maybe that was it Ed. All I can remember from that thread of Fr. Guy’s is that it was Anglican - I think High Church Anglican, but the good father would have to correct that if it is wrong.

I know from the Catholic side that when HH Pope Benedict XVI was made pope he moved around St. Peter’s Square with a mitre that had his arms as either Cardinal Ratzinger, or, when he was a bishop…I can’t remember; it was shown on EWTN and when I seen it almost immediately the guests on EWTN (Ray Arroyo and Fr. Neuhaus [sp?]) commented on them then. I wish my memory was better, but I really think that these few cases show how arms can, or maybe should, be used in Catholic, Anglican, etc. liturgical vestments.

8)

 
gselvester
 
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gselvester
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14 July 2006 07:54
 

Yes, yes, yes…heraldry is used on vestments in the Anglican and Roman Catholic traditions. Below are several examples of heraldry used on the Pope’s vestments, on the fanons, or infulae, of his mitre (his arms as cardinal and pope) as well as on his stole and on the rear bottom of his chasuble.

http://excoboard.com/forums/18883/user/133625/191247.jpg

 

 

Also images of heraldry used on the cope of an Anglican bishop. The one on the right is ironic in that it is an Anglican bishop but the cope is embroidered mostly with the arms of several 20th C. popes! It was made to commemorate Anglican/RC relations.

 

http://excoboard.com/forums/18883/user/133625/191248.jpg

 

But, this thread is supposed to be about ORTHODOX heraldry

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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14 July 2006 10:58
 

True enough good father; it is about Orothodox heraldry. Do you know if there is much use of it with them? I can’t recall seeing any at either the Oriental Catholic services I’ve been to or the Orthodox ones. I suspect it would be just as easy to see it there, as I do remember some extremely attractive Icons on their vestments. But I just don’t recall them. Do you also know if there is differences in Orthodox heraldry for the different Orthodox churches?

And thank you for the pics.

8)

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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15 May 2007 20:11
 

<div class=“bbcode_center” >
The arms of the Montenegrin Orthodox Church cut into stone.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7145/montenegrinorthodoxchurra2.jpg

 

The seal of the Montenegrin Orthodox Church bearing the same arms.

 

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9730/montenegrowf7.gif
</div>

 

 
Nenad Jovanovich
 
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Nenad Jovanovich
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16 May 2007 03:52
 

Those are the old arms (used 1904-1921) used by the Consistory of the Metropolitanate of Montenegro-Littoral of the Serbian Orthodox Church, but they have been illegaly assumed by a small uncanonical group now.

Unfortunately, the Metropolia is using a different heraldic insignia now…

 

So, there is no such thing in the Ecumenical Orthodoxy as - Montenegrin orthodox church!

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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16 May 2007 12:14
 

is it the norm in Orthodox corporate heraldry to have the cross and crozier (sorry, but I don’t know the exact name of the staff) in saltire in front of the shield, as depicted here Nenad?

 
Nenad Jovanovich
 
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Nenad Jovanovich
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16 May 2007 17:43
 

No, they are usually depicted in saltire behind the escutheon.

This is a curiosity as they serve as division lines to the field itself.

 

Nice touch if you ask me…

 
Nenad Jovanovich
 
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Nenad Jovanovich
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23 May 2007 08:58
 

An interesting page on Orthodox Ecclesiastical Heraldry at the blog of The Right Reverend Protoprezbyter-Mytrophor Father Waldemar Janusz Kuchta D.D.

http://fatherwaldemar.blogspot.com/2005/05/heraldry-in-orthodox-church.html

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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23 May 2007 10:32
 

Thanx Nenad. Is the dexter hand apaume Gules charge appear often in eastern heraldry? As in, Saint Joseph of Damascus Antiochian parish arms. It is very frequent in Irish and Scottish heraldry. Just curious.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5996/732/1600/St&#37;20Joseph Damascene.jpg

 
Alex Maxwell Findlater
 
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Alex Maxwell Findlater
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23 May 2007 12:29
 

I think that the red hand is probably an Irish symbol, from Ulster and the O’Neills. All/most of the occurances in Scotland are in West Coast arms which would likely have a strong Irish input. In those days the sea was the quickest form of transport, so Ireland was closer to the west coast than it was to the rest of Scotland.

There was a recent thread on the HSS forum about McGachen arms which dealt with this.

 
Donnchadh
 
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Donnchadh
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23 May 2007 14:22
 

yes, i remember that thread Alex. smile