Tightening Up A Design

 
NLP337
 
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NLP337
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10 September 2014 17:09
 

Hi Everyone,

Okay, here we go. Here are my designs:

1.http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/clayprince337/Proposed CoA/72f409cf-8b3d-42a7-a8d4-66f47a205209_zps2a0ca0ed.png2.http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/clayprince337/Proposed CoA/85fffe1c-89f0-4b8a-aaf5-5d99d7ccdd2c_zps72d34ee1.png3.http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/clayprince337/Proposed CoA/c6f61cba-55bf-4c2c-9868-7875736a4c91_zpsa2cdd12f.jpg

 

 

I’m having issues with color on color/metal on metal with the paladin in particular. I’m also wondering about the sword’s blade. I like the detail of the armor, but wonder if I’ll have to just make him one solid color (probably blue)?

 

I’m also wondering about the two spears shown on #3. They aren’t meant to be supporters. Does that still work, or are they automatically assumed to be supporters because of their location? If so, can a flag/banner be used in place of one or both of them?

 

I’m using Armorial Gold for this, because I couldn’t draw if my life depended on it. :animlol: Because of this, some elements might not work out fully ... there may be a different type of helmet that might work better for example.

 

Thanks in advance for comments and input.

 

~ Lee

 
Snyder
 
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Snyder
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10 September 2014 21:02
 

To me the design feels crowded with the embattled border and the posture of the knight. I feel crest would look a lot better placed on the shield and the knight being the crest. If that isn’t an option, reduce the size of the knight to fit within the border and not on top of it; though I say try flipping the crest and charge.

Do not take this as a gospel, but I believe you can just blazon the knight as "Proper" and avoids the tincture rule, but I think if you go that route the design will be lacking and resemble something from the realm of SCA.

 

A lesson I learned about using Armorial Gold is that it is VERY easy to settle for a posture based on the artwork that is available versus what work and look better.  Some of the clip art is great, but most of it is lacking and looks sub par. For $100 it’s not a bad collection and makes it easy to make drafts.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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11 September 2014 03:48
 

The embatled bordure suggests cadency from the arms of some ancestor who bore the same arms without the bordure.Not a fatal flaw unless your family was Scottish,but still may be misleading to a fair share of viewers with some knowledge of heraldry.

As to the design itself, I like brother Snyder’s suggestion of using your crest design on the shield - very visually striking and much less likely to infringe on some historic arms.

 

What is your intended symbolism for your shield and crest designs?

 

As to the helmet & other doodad, only the shield design and crest are relevant at this point.  The rest is essentially generic, I.e. not unique to you and largely just artistic license which within fairly wide limits can vary in each artist’s rendition.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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11 September 2014 06:26
 

Re Snyder and Mike’s comment on using the crest as the shield and vice versa:

a) I agree completely, and

 

b) If you take our advice on that point, I’d further recommend the crest be a demi-knight instead of full length. To me, full length human figures in crests always seem in constant danger of losing their balance and falling off.

 
NLP337
 
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NLP337
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12 September 2014 01:32
 

Thanks for your suggestions. I’ve been mulling it over the last few days.

The Knight stands in for me as an individual and my family as a whole. He represents my journey through life now, and pays tribute to the members of my family who have served in the U.S. military. He stands for the capability and warrior spirit that my family exhibits when it’s necessary to take on a challenge. The knight also exemplifies my fascination with military history and the accouterments of war and on a lighter side, my love of epic fantasy. The sword represents my family sword "Gedeyon." I actually call him a Paladin rather than a knight because outside of a connection to Rome and her Church, and Charlemagne, paladins are fictional. The paladin encourages us to imagine! With his raised sword, the battle to defeat evil is underway.

 

The Lion stands in for me alone. One of my nicknames is The Grey Lion. The spear represents my willingness to defend my family and others. It is a deeply spiritual symbol for me as well. The sun in the background supports my continued growth and understanding.

 

I’d be willing to remove the embattlement (which stands for the challenges that my ancestors faced and endured). After it was suggested that it touched on Scottish cadency, I did run across that information while doing some research. If I did that, what other poses/positions could I use for the knight that would set him apart, yet work with the crest, or is it just not working?

 

~ Lee

 
Kathy McClurg
 
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Kathy McClurg
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12 September 2014 03:37
 

Thanks for the design rationale.

I was wondering if you’d considered something symbolizing the knight and sword?  A helm, gauntlet, spur, etc. on the shield rather than a full knight?

 

One of the reasons I ask is the COA itself tends to represent a warrior spirit and a bit of militarist attitude…

 

I did a google on "Gedeyon" as a name and found know known meaning… Is it a stylized form of Gideon?

 
NLP337
 
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NLP337
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12 September 2014 06:59
 

Kathy McClurg;102682 wrote:

Thanks for the design rationale.

I was wondering if you’d considered something symbolizing the knight and sword?  A helm, gauntlet, spur, etc. on the shield rather than a full knight?

 

One of the reasons I ask is the COA itself tends to represent a warrior spirit and a bit of militarist attitude…

 

I did a google on "Gedeyon" as a name and found know known meaning… Is it a stylized form of Gideon?


Hi Kathy. smile Yes. Gedeyon is a stylized form of Gideon (Feller of Trees).

 

More to think about, definitely! I’m going to tinker with some Am. Gold this weekend and see what I come up with.

 
Claus K Berntsen
 
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Claus K Berntsen
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12 September 2014 11:32
 

I would recommend against having the lion stand in front of the sun in the crest. Remember that the crest is a three-dimensional object, which means that depending on the angle you view the crest in the lion’s position relative to the sun changes slightly.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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13 September 2014 03:19
 

Since we’re still quite early in this design process, a couple of hopefully new possibilities, strictly FWIW:

As Claus noted, the original crest design is not well suited for a 3-dimensional crest. This concern doesn’t apply to the same design if placed on the shield, which is a 2-dimensional image.  The one concern I would have re: this design is the lack of any particular reference to the surname - not that this is a requirement, which it certainly isn’t, but in this case (as in many others past & present) the symbolism could easily apply just as well to any number of other families and names with generally similar histories and values.

 

So FWIW how about introducing something suggestive of the surname?  One possibility (there may be others) is the Biblical naming of St. Peter, "on this rock…"  So how about the sun rising from behind a rock in base with a lion or knight or paladin or whatever standing on the rock in front of the sun?  Hopefully simpler visually than it sounds, and a sort of cant or rebus on Peterson?

 

As noted, not presented as a solution, merely some more grist for the mill.

 

As for the crest, ditto Joe’s suggestion; also a demi-knight (or demi-anything used as a crest) will be visually twice as big as the whole figure.

 
Kenneth Mansfield
 
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Kenneth Mansfield
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13 September 2014 09:01
 

NLP337;102680 wrote:

The Knight stands in for me as an individual and my family as a whole. He represents my journey through life now, and pays tribute to the members of my family who have served in the U.S. military. He stands for the capability and warrior spirit that my family exhibits when it’s necessary to take on a challenge. The knight also exemplifies my fascination with military history and the accouterments of war and on a lighter side, my love of epic fantasy. The sword represents my family sword "Gedeyon." I actually call him a Paladin rather than a knight because outside of a connection to Rome and her Church, and Charlemagne, paladins are fictional. The paladin encourages us to imagine! With his raised sword, the battle to defeat evil is underway.


Not that it has to, but can’t the act of assuming arms themselves represent some of what the knight represents? To me, putting a knight on a shield is a little like putting horses on your horse blanket so people will know it’s a horse blanket.

 
 
NLP337
 
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NLP337
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13 September 2014 15:25
 

Hi Mr. Mansfield. Actually, I hadn’t thought of it that way until Kathy alluded to it earlier. The knight is unintentional overkill. Actually the entire design is overkill. I was so intent on getting all of my symbols in that the design became secondary. I’ll tone it down on the next iteration.

 
mjsmith
 
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mjsmith
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13 September 2014 21:22
 

NLP337;102694 wrote:

Hi Mr. Mansfield. Actually, I hadn’t thought of it that way until Kathy alluded to it earlier. The knight is unintentional overkill. Actually the entire design is overkill. I was so intent on getting all of my symbols in that the design became secondary. I’ll tone it down on the next iteration.


"Or, a lion rampant holding a spear azure" would be very nice looking arms.  Perhaps you could add an embattled chief with the Sun , or Sun’s, placed there.

 
NLP337
 
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NLP337
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14 September 2014 09:38
Claus K Berntsen
 
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Claus K Berntsen
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14 September 2014 09:39
 

mjsmith;102695 wrote:

"Or, a lion rampant holding a spear azure" would be very nice looking arms.  Perhaps you could add an embattled chief with the Sun , or Sun’s, placed there.

The tinctures are inverted, but otherwise it’s a bit too close to the arms of von Reiser.


<div class=“bbcode_center” >
http://riksarkivet.se/Media/Bilder/heraldik/Reiser_big.jpg

Picture from the website of the Swedish State Herald.
</div>

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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15 September 2014 03:37
 

Clause - beautiful artwork! - and thanks for the link!

For designing new personal or family arms, a lion rampant holding something is not as distinctive as one (me anyway) might wish, especially at a distance or in small scale.  A top-notch heraldic artist as with Claus’s example can make it work, but it’s difficult to make the spear or other stick-thingee visually distinct at a distance or in small scale unless there is something more e. g. a banner or pennon on the spear or stick.

 

One of the nice aspects of the originally proposed crest (lion on a sun) is the added visual distinctiveness vs just the lion alone.  On the shield, ideally the sun would nearly fill the field, leaving room for the lion to be nearly as large as a lion alone on a plain shield.  Visually the shield would approximate a bordure rayonne, though more circular - in my mind’s eye, should look quite nice, though of course to each his own.  Perhaps SKS with the needed skills could show us what it might look like.

 

Re: two the last two posted designs, I like the one with the three stars or spur rowels in a vertical row. What’s your intended symbolism? (I could guess but better to ask)

 

As always my opinions FWIW.

 
mjsmith
 
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mjsmith
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15 September 2014 17:25
 

Well, for some reason I don’t have a really good vector rampant lion in my library, so here is a not so good lion with another take on your latest design.  I didn’t know what tinctures you were going for so I used the initial pairing of Or and Azure and then used Or and Gules (or Sanguine) for the second.  I slipped in the embattled chief as per your original embattled bordure.  I like the pierced mullets but I’m thinking without a proper division of the field you’re getting close to Joe McMillan’s arms or really any McMillan/MacMillan arms with those charges.

http://i.imgur.com/ZBnJju9s.png http://i.imgur.com/KCgxVj2s.png