Gold bars on helms, certainly. But Steel/Silver bars on helms we see from continental painters. Thus far, those I know and have queried are confirming that, Barred helms not using gold have no specific meaning and are used. One has passed some information from a German Heraldry forum which states this is the case in some parts of areas influenced by the HRE and not others.. Since I do not read German, I’m at the mercy of their translations and interpretations.
With that, I’ll step out of the conversation and await the next brow beating.
Sorry, I haven’t followed this conversation from the start, so forgive me if this has already been addressed, but why wouldn’t it be a doctoral bonnet?
Kathy McClurg;103848 wrote:
Because at Purdue they use Mortar boards.
The U.S. has never used steel-plated helmets, outside of Renaissance Fairs and D&D live action roleplaying, but I see a whole lot of people on this board with gentleman’s helms on their achievements.
As previously noted, I don’t favor the introduction of academic hats to symbolize degrees on coats of arms, but agree that if they were to be introduced, the choice of a mortarboard or the "bonnet" form should be a matter of personal choice, potentially varying from one emblazonment to another, just as one may use a barrel helm on one achievement, a tilting helm on another, and a closed armet on a third.
The only reservation I can see is if some university had a particularly distinctive style of headgear for its doctors, and use of that by graduates of other universities would create a false impression. (Presumably this would only happen if the university with the unique style of cap was more distinguished than the one the person actually got his degree from.)
It is, however, a purely academic discussion, in more ways than one.
Joe- while it’s true that in some subjects California and other states in the SW retained Mexican law, the bulk of the population (certainly the bulk of the politically active population) for much of our history was from the east. Our original state constitution was, I was told when I worked years ago as one of the clerks in the State Senate, largely modeled after Iowa; though it was printed in both English and Spanish. For better or worse, that attempt at parity didn’t last. Except for specific subjects e.g. land and water rights, the state was in roughly the same situation as New Amsterdam or New Sweden after control shifted to England, or the German settlements in Pennsylvania: overwhelmingly English and then American, with a bit of non-English local color - but as much from subsequent immigration as from the original pre-English or pre-American colonists.
Per the underlying principle of our Guidelines, as go the general laws / culture /customs of American society, so goes American heraldry. Local color / customs welcome, to (but only to) the extent not inconsistent with American norms and values. In practical terms, Spanish (or whatever) artistic style and "feel" is OK so long as we avoid or delete indicia of noblesse, other than display in the limited context of cultural or family celebrations and then only what you would be entitled to display in the relevant old country. And back to American style on Monday.
[Moderators, would you please consider moving the threads specifically related to the use of the term "esquire" to a separate, stand-alone thread? I’d like to consider that discussion, but it seems to be off-topic to the original post. Thanks.]
David Pope;103994 wrote:
[Moderators, would you please consider moving the threads specifically related to the use of the term "esquire" to a separate, stand-alone thread?
I did start a separate thread last night. If people will check at the "new posts" button instead of continuing to drag things off topic, it would help.
Moving all these to the new thread now.