Mural Crown in lieu of Torse?

 
MohamedHossam
 
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MohamedHossam
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16 July 2015 03:21
 

Hello everyone

I found this image of a signet ring:

http://www.heraldica.com/images/Jewelry/MENS2500/0349~~C.jpg

 

The website blazons it as "Out of a mural crown, a demi lion reguardant". This appears to be the whole crest, since they have another one which has a mural crown AND a torse.

 

So I was wondering, is the use of a mural crown instead of a torse "allowed"? I was unaware that a mural crown could be used by an individual and not a town or village.

 

On a related note, on George Washington’s coat of arms, is there any significance to the crest coronet? Does it refer to any ancestor’s rank?

 

 

http://austenonly.com/2012/03/09/the-austen-coat-of-arms-and-seal/

The Austen (as in the family of author Jane Austen) apparently also used a mural crown in their crest?

 

Regards

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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16 July 2015 07:43
 

In English heraldry, mural crowns were/are often used in crests of distinguished military men, although not exclusively.

There’s a long-standing and, as far as I know, unresolved debate over whether the crest coronet has any nobiliary significance. Much of the argument has been cast in terms of seriously faulty logic, such as "of the X number of Garter stall plates on which crest coronets appear, 90% [or some such number] belong to princes or peers; therefore a crest coronet is indicative of high nobility." Of course, the Order of the Garter was overwhelmingly composed of princes and peers, so the same statistics would have been true of arms without crest coronets.

 

I’m inclined to believe that both were merely decorative, in the beginning, or at least that any bar to using them was a fairly low one—esquires and above, perhaps, but since they go back to the time before heraldic regulation there would not have been anything systematic about them.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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16 July 2015 15:35
 

Ditto Joe.

If you’re thinking of using a crest coronet in a new crest design (mentioning this because you’ve recently raised questions about a possible new crest for your arms) see also Sec 2.1.2.4 of the AHS Guidelines linked to the AHS home page, especially the fifth sentence beginning "Nevertheless…"

 

While the usual crest coronet isn’t technically nobiliary, the recommended "best practice" in designing new crests, at least as I read it, is to avoid anything that might suggest or imply a claim to any special status to the casual (non-expert) observer.

 

Note that "best practice" is more than just "doesn’t technically violate the rules" - i.e. should/shouldn’t rather than can/can’t.

 

I suspect most of this isn’t news but it never hurts to restate for others who may read it.

 
ninest123
 
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ninest123
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25 July 2018 12:00
 

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ninest123
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ninest123
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12 October 2018 04:18