Justin Trudeau

 
Benjamin Thornton
 
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Benjamin Thornton
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20 October 2015 14:25
 

For the first time in Canadian history a son of a former prime minister led his party to victory in a general election and will be named the next prime minister (once the current PM has submitted his resignation and Governor General asks the new guy to form a government).

Justin Trudeau is the eldest son of Pierre Trudeau, whose arms are shown here:

 

http://reg.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/ProjectPics/ii363_19920025_arms_trudeau.jpg

 

Trudeau fils already has the benefit of inheriting arms bearing an augmentation denoting his father’s position. One wonders whether he will petition the CHA for supporters (Trudeau pere’s being granted, as per Canadian tradition, for his lifetime), and whether the Chief Herald would grant him the same ones if asked.

 
David Pope
 
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David Pope
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20 October 2015 14:33
 

Very nice.  I like the idea of lifetime supporters for high officials. wink

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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20 October 2015 15:11
 

... for Canadians wink

Curious - is the little white square with the red maple leaves a permanent heritable element in these arms?

 
Benjamin Thornton
 
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Benjamin Thornton
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20 October 2015 15:25
 

Michael F. McCartney;104950 wrote:

Curious - is the little white square with the red maple leaves a permanent heritable element in these arms?


Yes. It’s included in the letters patent in the blazon of arms to be borne by Trudeau and his heirs. Only the supporters are lifetime-limited.

 

And obviously the Order of Canada ribbon and medal are not heritable, although most former prime ministers are eventually appointed to the order. Trudeau senior’s Companion of Honour medal would be a tougher act to follow.

 
Luis Cid
 
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Luis Cid
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21 October 2015 20:48
 

Benjamin, do you know if Justin Trudeau has ever used these arms?

 
Benjamin Thornton
 
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Benjamin Thornton
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21 October 2015 20:56
 

I have no idea. For that matter, I don’t know if or how Pierre ever used the arms.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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21 October 2015 22:46
 

Does the little white square with red maple leaves have a special significance?  (more than "I’m Canadian, eh…" smile )

Or is it just another charge available to all?

 
Benjamin Thornton
 
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22 October 2015 08:51
 

Michael F. McCartney;104973 wrote:

Does the little white square with red maple leaves have a special significance?  (more than "I’m Canadian, eh…" smile )

Or is it just another charge available to all?


The four red maple leaves conjoined in stem is the "mark of the Prime Ministership" according to the CHA. It’s a heritable augmentation. The CHA has been granting this augmentation since 1994.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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22 October 2015 15:15
 

Thanks!

 
Wilfred Leblanc
 
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Wilfred Leblanc
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29 October 2015 16:34
 

The CHA does such good, interesting work. As a direct-male line descendant of a Carignan-Salieres Regiment soldier and his mid-19th c. Quebecois posterity, I think I would, for sentimental reasons, consider petitioning the CHA for a grant, but as yet, there seems no provision for non-Canadian citizens to do that. Perhaps they’ll reconsider one of these days. I suppose there’s always the path of forming a Leblanc family association (for my Leblancs, not the Acadian LeBlancs, who’ve already got their ensigns), but I imagine it would have to be headquartered in Canada.

 
Claus K Berntsen
 
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Claus K Berntsen
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29 October 2015 16:48
 

I can’t help but wonder if the next Prime Minister might be given another augmentation, denoting his own position.


Benjamin Thornton;104948 wrote:

For the first time in Canadian history a son of a former prime minister led his party to victory in a general election and will be named the next prime minister (once the current PM has submitted his resignation and Governor General asks the new guy to form a government).

Justin Trudeau is the eldest son of Pierre Trudeau, whose arms are shown here:

 

http://reg.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/ProjectPics/ii363_19920025_arms_trudeau.jpg

 

Trudeau fils already has the benefit of inheriting arms bearing an augmentation denoting his father’s position. One wonders whether he will petition the CHA for supporters (Trudeau pere’s being granted, as per Canadian tradition, for his lifetime), and whether the Chief Herald would grant him the same ones if asked.

 

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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29 October 2015 18:00
 

Fred—if you have LeBlanc cousins still in Canada, you could a$$i$t them in petitioning for arms.  However IIRC the CHA will grant arms to petitioner and other descendants of his/her grandparent, but not other descendants of a great-grandparent etc., so any grant will not include more distant cousins.  Each group of first cousins would have to petition and pay fees for a separate coat of arms, though I suppose the designs could be similar.

Association arms, while there is no similar limitation on membership, are the arms of the corporation; they aren’t AFAIK useable as the personal arms of the infividual members.

 

I think it’s unlikely that the Canadians will change their rules, either re: foreign petitioners or broader destinations, just to accommodate the wishes of non-Canadians.

 

Of course you and your LeBlanc/White cousins could design and assume new American arms for those of you here, if your current arms wouldn’t serve that purpose.  You wouldn’t be restricted to first cousins as under CHA practice.

 

Each country has, and is entitled to, it’s own quirks!

 
Wilfred Leblanc
 
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Wilfred Leblanc
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29 October 2015 18:44
 

Michael F. McCartney;105078 wrote:

Fred—if you have LeBlanc cousins still in Canada, you could a$$i$t them in petitioning for arms.  However IIRC the CHA will grant arms to petitioner and other descendants of his/her grandparent, but not other descendants of a great-grandparent etc., so any grant will not include more distant cousins.  Each group of first cousins would have to petition and pay fees for a separate coat of arms, though I suppose the designs could be similar.

Association arms, while there is no similar limitation on membership, are the arms of the corporation; they aren’t AFAIK useable as the personal arms of the infividual members.

 

I think it’s unlikely that the Canadians will change their rules, either re: foreign petitioners or broader destinations, just to accommodate the wishes of non-Canadians.

 

Of course you and your LeBlanc/White cousins could design and assume new American arms for those of you here, if your current arms wouldn’t serve that purpose.  You wouldn’t be restricted to first cousins as under CHA practice.

 

Each country has, and is entitled to, it’s own quirks!


Thanks for the feedback, Mike. Naturally, I understand that I don’t require any foreign authority’s approval to bear arms in the U.S. and that no such authority confers any legal protection of arms they grant in the U.S.

 

I’m sure I do have Leblanc cousins still in Canada, but they would be fifth or sixth cousins. I like the association idea best. No, they’re not personal arms, but I think it would be in reasonably good taste, and not terribly immodest, for association members to use them. And I like the idea of doing something with and for living family to honor some shared origin—spreads the cost around, too, obviously. I also like the idea of any arms I’d actually use (on a signet ring or stationery, for instance) paying tribute primarily to someone or some group besides myself. I’m not sure what the point of assuming arms is if you’re not going to use them, and as any long-term participant in this forum knows, I did assume arms, but I’ve never been able to feel OK about using them. A badge derived from the arms? Yes, I could do that. Badges went on livery buttons and so on, and are of heraldic inspiration without being heraldry per se, so the statement they make is at least a little ambiguous by my lights. But I would never want to make anyone else feel inferior. If I’m a gentleman (and as you know, I am not comfortable with the idea that just anyone ought to be using a personal coat of arms), the fact will speak for itself. If I’m not, then what a terrible affectation it would be for me to walk around with a signet ring!

 

Anyway, it is worth noting that my interest in Leblanc Association arms came about, indirectly, through the AHS. You might recall John DuLong, an authority on French-Canadian and Metis genealogy whom I think I first encountered here. Well, his website alerted me to some research he contributed to on ancestors we share, which in turn alerted me to the sort of irony I delight in. I am—in my way—a champion of the underdog.

 

To make a long story short, it transpires that my French-Canadian great-grandfather White (the son of a millworker in Saco, ME, who became, Horatio Alger style, very much an establishment figure in Cambridge, MA and Charlotte, NC, but from his Southern in-laws’ perspective was, I think, mainly valuable as a source of funding for their pretensions), has medieval ancestors that arguably out-fancy the fanciest of the Colonial and Revolutionary and Confederate ancestors his in-laws venerated. I knew that he had some French-Canadian worthies in various lines, but the connections to Charlemagne, Hugh Capet, William the Conqueror, Simon de Montfort, etc. gave me a good chuckle at the expense of the Lowcountry- and FFV-type forebearers whom, of course, I love dearly, but towards whom I’ve developed a somewhat complicated attitude.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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29 October 2015 20:16
 

I do remember John DuLong - a good guy and competent researcher; who designed and assumed a very nice coat of arms.

Re: your LeBlanc immigrant ancestor - I’m guessing that while he apparently had a passle of fancy French forebears (I’m in an alliterstive mood, sorry!) they were maternal connections rather than paternal line, and that he had no paternal arms back in France—since if he did have arms you’d just continue to use them rather than assuming new ones that you don’t use. wink

 

I do recall that at dome point you assumed arms but can’t recall what they were or find them online.  But since you would be more comfortable with a badge, why not just depict your assumed arms (which presumably had some meaning to you) on, say, a roundel rather than a traditional shield and use that as a badge?  Or at least mine your assumed arms for ideas for a badge?  Since I don’t know what your assumed arms are (hint, hint) I can’t make specific suggestions.

 

Of course I’d rather help you realize that assumed arms are just fine and worthy of being used! - but at 71, not sure I have enough years left for thst…

 
Wilfred Leblanc
 
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Wilfred Leblanc
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29 October 2015 20:25
 

Michael F. McCartney;105080 wrote:

I do remember John DuLong - a good guy and competent researcher; who designed and assumed a very nice cost of arms.

Re: your LeBlanc immigrant ancestor - I’m guessing that while he apparently had a passle of fancy French forebears (I’m in an allit


I regret that the rest of your post got deleted, but if you were on your way to speculating that my great-grandfather was descended from many more peasants than fancy types, the answer is "Of course, and they might have provided the superior genes." He still gets the last laugh on the pedigree question.

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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29 October 2015 20:35
 

(I just edited to complete what I started to say.)