When designing my arms I tried to choose a charge that represents a strong sturdy type of person. I went through a bunch of charges and decided I liked the elephant. I choose it because it seems like an elephant was like a pillar to be leaned on and could support the most difficult of circumstances. This is what I was trying to convey and I was very happy with the results.

However, as I presented the arms to my father, I forgot about the elephant in the room (pun intended:p ) which is politics. My father (and grandfather) are both have very liberal views (as does most of my family) and here I go and (unintentionally) choose the symbol of the conservative party to go into our arms. Now I still like the elephant, and my family hasn’t said anything but I sense at the very least uneasyness in this choice of charge.

I have also begun the process of adapting arms for other members of the family, and as I get further along I feel a little disapointed in myself for not including them as much as I would have liked in the beginning. I feel a little selfish for choosing them based solely on my interests and not seeking input from people who will likely adapt the arms.

So I am entertaining the possibility of changing that charge to something, but my problem is I have no idea what I would want to change it too.  I was considering using something more distinctly North American. My idea were a Bison or a Bighorn sheep (and mind you I would prefer to keep the Elephant for 2 reasons. 1) I like it a lot and 2) Louis has already done a wonderful rendition of my arms with the elephant charge and I would hate to ask him (yet again) to alter them (more reason 1 than 2 mind you).

Ok I am rambling, I guess my question is what advice could you knowledgable heraldry enthusiests give me for my dilema?

Linusboarder wrote:

I was considering using something more distinctly North American.

A mastadon or a mammoth?

Well, as someone who changed their arms a few times I shouldn’t really say this but..I think you should keep them just the way they are. An elephant is an elephant and a donkey is a donkey! I would say that since they are not in a political context, they are just representing of the animals themselves, not of Republicans or Democrats.

Maybe you can use bison for the crest, or, and this might not go down smoothly as (whispers)supporters along with an elephant or otter.

Cheers,

contrary to popular belief, there is not set scheme of meanings assigned to every charge in heraldry… if you want your elephant to stand for solidarity etc. ect. then that is what it stands for, if you wanted it to stand for the Republican Party, it could do that too… I say don’t worry about it…

You can use a different charge for your family on the rational of a "change of charge" like the the Scots sometimes show cadency…

Depending on where you registered your arms, you may not be able to change them.  I know the ACH does not change registrations soley on "change in taste" and they site the COA for that purpose.  If they haven’t been registered yet, than you can change them as often as you’d like, but remember that people identify you by those arms.  Repeatedly changing them would defeat the purpose.

I agree with Emmit too, if you really like the elephant and what it means to you, by all means keep it.  I’d explain the symbolism to your relatives and hopefully they’ll see it that way.  If they don’t you could always change their arms and keep your elephant as a way of differencing.

My own personal feelings, I like them the way they are, especially now that I know the reasons for the charge.

Andrew J Vidal wrote:

I agree with Emmit too…

Emmit???

woops!  Sorry about that:oops:

Andrew J Vidal wrote:

woops!  Sorry about that:oops:

no worries… I did the same thing yesterday in a different thread with Mr. Brady… err Bradley

Well I know that, especially in heraldry, there is no inherant symbolism within each symbol, and the elephant in my arms is not a symbol of the republican party, so I personally have no qualms about that. However I have been talking with members of my family and there seems to be a ...lack of enthusiasm about the arms and I believe they associate the elephant with the republican party.

I guess I am more open to changing the charge because I don’t feel i gathered the proper input before developing the arms from within my own family. I know if I was going to start from scratch again I would do things a little differently (not to say I am unhappy with my arms, because I am happy with them I love them).

I guess what I’m getting at is that right now the elephant is going to appear in my father, uncle, grandfather, sister and everyone else’s arms. I am not uncomfortable with an elephant in my own arms, but I am uncomfortable choosing a charge that would make people I love uncomfortable with their own arms. I would rather change to something that makes everyone happy, than plow ahead with something that makes other’s uncomfortable or uninterested in their own arms.

I love the mammoth idea. I will bring it up to my family.

And to answer Mr. Vidal’s concerns I have not registered my arms with anyone yet so this is not a concern. I was actually waiting until I finished the badge, but in talking to my father about his arms yesterday I started having these thoughts.

No registration, no worries!

This is where you’d probably run into a lot of problems especially since you’re looking to assume arms for multiple people in your family and each individula has thier own personal traits.  Perhaps you could call a family meeting of sorts and see what traits you all feel you have and find charges that speak to you all as a whole.

And, please, call me Andrew.  "Mr. Vidal" is my father!  (Not to mention we’re the same age):D

Your father thinks the elephant means Republican?  Why not propose that he adopt an elephant charge pierced with an arrow!

Michael Swanson wrote:

Your father thinks the elephant means Republican?  Why not propose that he adopt an elephant charge pierced with an arrow!

because he might like that idea:-o

Linusboarder wrote:

However, as I presented the arms to my father, I forgot about the elephant in the room (pun intended:p ) which is politics. My father (and grandfather) are both have very liberal views (as does most of my family) and here I go and (unintentionally) choose the symbol of the conservative party to go into our arms. Now I still like the elephant, and my family hasn’t said anything but I sense at the very least uneasyness in this choice of charge.

Tell your family that to be bipartisan you also included a weasel!  What more could they want?

hahahah

Good one Joe!:mrgreen:

Joseph McMillan wrote:

Tell your family that to be bipartisan you also included a weasel!  What more could they want?

Maybe I’ll pair that with a fat cat to be bipartisan :rolleyes:

But back to heraldry, I think I’ll present my family with the CoA I have now, and mention that I want to make sure everyone is involved. Tell them I like the elephant, but if we wanted to change it, we could do something like a Bison, Bighorn sheep or Mammoth to get away from the unintended political connotation.

All these days and weeks seeing your arms I never once thought, "hey, he must be a Republican because of that elephant." I hate to think that people will start eliminating charges because they are symbolic of certain things at certain times. If these arms were designed to be those of your local Democratic Party HQ, well I would certainly see a problem.

But, again, like everyone keeps repeating, you should be happy and comfortable with the arms you choose. And if you want these to be alligned to your family, you might want to discuss the issue with family members to see if it really is a problem.