Hello! As you guys know, I’ve been around for awhile now, and one of the greatest aspects of an armiger, IMHO, is to help someone with a design for their own CoA; so imagine my surprise when, not one, but both of my kids came to me last week wanting their own arms! We’ve worked out preliminary designs for each, but they are simple enough to already be in use. That would be very bad ju-ju. So, here are the blazons:
Joshua’s Shield: Vert a saltire Or and in chief a label dovetailed Or.
Joshua’s Crest: Issuant from a crest coronet a bald eagle displayed Proper.
Joshua’s Mantling: The Colors.
Joshua’s Motto: "I’ll Deal With It"
Rachael’s Shield: Gules a cross Argent charged with a heart Gules.
Rachael’s Crest: Issuant from a crest coronet upon a mound a conie couchant Argent ears erect.
Rachael’s Mantling: The Colors.
Rachael’s Motto: (motto pending)
I explained to them, in their terms, that the label and the heart are generally marks of cadency for the first-born son and daughter respectively, and that they could use my arms with those cadency marks; but they want their own designs while sporting their respective first-born statuses. That makes the cadency marks actual charges! It also means that they won’t inherit my arms as I had hoped, but perhaps another generation will. My greatest concern is prior use of these arms. Has anyone seen these arms before, or otherwise know whether they are already in use?
FYI, a conie is a bunny rabbit.
Click on this thumbnail [IMG]http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2441/hickmankidsjl5.th.jpg and let me know if I got the blazons correct.
I’m not sure what you mean by a label dovetailed… I suspect you just mean a label, but was there something particular that you wanted that I’m just not aware of?
Also, I would suggest against the use of the crest coronet, the implication by using these is that you are a peer entitled to a particular sort of crown. Although this argument probably runs parallel to the supporters argument and probably shouldn’t be hashed out again here.
On the whole I’d say they look pretty good, perhaps a bit non-descript but definitely a good start.
Trent, Might I suggest you move the cross-bar on the Lady’s arms up a bit, as it is the cross seems a little out of place. Perhaps moving the crossing closer to the honor point. It is just an artistic thing and doesn’t need specification in the blazon.
Keep us updated! :yoda:
:shock: WOW! :shock: Trent, that is AWESOME!!!!! Truely spectacular! I have got to know how you emblazoned them!
Does "displayed" mean that the eagle’s legs are spread out like that? I think that it would look better with the legs standing in the coronet. Perhaps I should’ve said "rising" instead.
Evertt’s right on the cross and heart—they should be more centered. Also, the conie should be the pinnacle of the entire achievement, as it is her favorite animal.
I apologize for being overly critical, especially after the effort which you’ve put into the renderings. Overall, they look fantastic! My kids will be almost as proud of their arms as I am of them! :D
Evertt, coronets in American arms are O.K., as mine and my mom’s have been duly registered with such at the USHR. Actual crowns, however, are a big, fat, heraldic no-no. As for the label, he wanted it to be distinct—not just an "E" on it’s face. He wanted it to be as is depicted above.
It’s just Amorial Gold clipart, the free Serif Drawplus software, and a few hours of free time.
I agree about the cross, but that’s how it is on the template for a shield with a cross. I think the cross gets distorted because of the type of shield it’s on. If I used a square shield, then the cross would be more centered.
Stephen, I agree about the rabbit being bigger. But it’s tricky getting the mound and the rabbit inside the crown and keeping the rabbit large at the same time. If I make the rabbit larger it will be too large for the mound. And if I make the mound larger, it won’t fit in the crown. I could do both, but the final image would be distorted.
Yes, "displayed" means legs and all. Did you mean a "demi-eagle displayed"? That would mean that it’s just the upper body coming out of the crown. The legs and tail would not be seen.
I would suggest dropping the crowns because take away space from the main features of the crests. If you drop the crowns, then you give yourself more "canvas" to play with.
Trent, I apologize. I didn’t mean for the rabbit to be bigger. I meant for the mound to be shorter so that the same-sized rabbit would be on the top thereof.
Would the eagle be depicted better if it were rising? What would that look like?
The coronets symbolize their citizenship in the Kingdom of Heaven. Respectfully, the coronets must remain.
Thank you for helping! We really apreciate it!
I tried making the mound smaller, but then it was too small to encompass the rabbit. It’s the awkwardness of trying to get all of that inside of the crown and keep it proportional at the same time that causes the problem.
I think an a demi-eagle displayed is more grand than one rising. A demi-eagle is the portion of the eagle from the abdomen up. The feet won’t be shown.
Look at AVD’s crest/avatar in the member list for an example of what your original blazon would depict.
Trent, thank you for being patient with me and my kids. The mound isn’t supposed to encompass the rabbit. The rabbit is supposed to be atop the mound. You had it right the first time, except that the mound isn’t supposed to be tall at all.
If you would be so kind in letting my kids see what you have in mind, they then might see your point. Please understand, it’s not me that is being nit-picky. He’s 9.5 and she’s 7. That is why it has to be just so. I know that they’ll like the final designs, though.
By "encompass," I mean that the mound has to be wider than the rabbit is long from nose to tail. That’s the only way for the rabbit to appear to be sitting on a field of grass without having either the mound or the rabbit distorted. The size of the crown limits the width of the mound which in turn limits the size of the rabbit. It’s the crown that’s the problem. But I think I have a solution. Did you still want to stick to the eagle rising or go with the demi-eagle? I’ll clear up the cross thing too.
I was out sick last week. So I had some time to goof around. And just as I was getting better, my second child was born. So it is going to be awhile before I can try working on those arms for you. But I will return to them.
Yes, I am going to divert from the subject of the thread: Congratulations, Trent! So what are the stats on the little guy/gal? How is mumma? God’s blessings on you and yours!
I’ll send you PM. I don’t want to hijack Stephen’s thread.
I’m not sure of the difference between "rising" and "displayed". I’ll explain to her about the mound. Perhaps if the mound wasn’t quite as tall, she then might be willing to compromise.
As a side note, congratulations on your second! :D
Take as much time as you need. You’re gonna need it. :rolleyes:
I should’ve known that something like this would happen…
Trent, both of my kids have changed their minds concerning their crests. My son wants a demi-eagle perched inside the coronet—no grass, hay, or the like—just the coronet. My daughter no longer wants the rabbit. She wants a Gold Lab puppy sitting up and begging. To blazon them:
Joshua’s New Crest: Issuant from a crest coronet a Demi-Bald Eagle perched Proper.
Rachael’s New Crest: Issuant from a crest coronet a Demi-Labrador Retriever Puppy sejant erect Or langed Gules.
Just remember, Trent, your kids will do this to you as well.
Since it’s all just a bit of educational fun for the kids, why shouldn’t they change their minds as often as they like?
This is why adoption of real arms is something that should await adulthood, but encouraging the young to play around with heraldic design is a wonderful idea. Just not one to be taken all that seriously.
You’re absolutely right, Joe. They should be old enough to appreciate heraldry before they assume arms. This is what I’ve tried to tell them repeatedly, but they want to be like their Daddy. They want them registered. I’ve tried to encourage them to wait, but at this point I only have two options. Either I not be engaged in my heraldic pursuits (including this forum) while the kids are home, or I see it to registration. Like everything else parental, I’ll just have to play it by ear…
Joe is right. They are showing an interest which should be encouraged. As far as registration at this point in time, I’m sure you could "work something out" with Michael Swanson at the USHR to get some "breathing space" (say, 10 or 15 years). He could no doubt help you out with something "short" of an actual registration. But you already mentioned the most important thing in your post: right now, they "want to be like Daddy." Cherish that. They become teenagers way too fast (and, boy, is that a totally different ball game!). Enjoy!