I believe Dennys, in the Heraldic Imagination, says the opposite, that angels are always male.  But it is certainly true that, other than the archangels Michael and Gabriel, they consistently seem to be portrayed as rather effeminate.

Hello Joseph,

Although I don’t have a copy of Rodney Dennys’ Heraldic Imagination on my bookshelves (I always thought I had copy, but it appears not!), when I made my recent statement regarding the gender of angels I was going by my reading of Julian Franklin’s ‘Shield and Crest’ which states on page 135 that ‘heraldic angels are female angels’.  Boutell’s is rather brief upon the subject of angels and casts no light upon their gender.  Neither does Friar or his other volume with John Ferguson.

As you say, angels in heraldry have tendency to look ambiguous and indeterminate on the gender front.

Regards.

John

I have Dennys, but not at hand, and there was no time to retrieve it as I was writing earlier.  I’ll try to remember to see what he says tonight.

Hmmm ... gay angels, busy bees, pomegranites and Japanese priests. The diversity of our little group is astonishing. :rolleyes:

Is it bad to want to thwap a fellow member of the Society on the head?!

Dave

Dennys claims that angels are sexless on p. 110, citing two instances of naked angels as proof.

The idea that spiritual being would need sexual reproductive organs is an extremely odd one.

I’m not sure, David.  For a moment he had it sounding like I was designing a shield for an episode of "Desperate Housewives."

Returning to the subject line, I’d see a pomegranate as a symbol of love and fidelity, based on its appearance in the myth of Persephone.  She ate six seeds, and was thus committed to be married six months out of the year.

Some tell the legend as four seeds (to account for winter when her mother mourned her absence), but I get your drift.

Actually, I have read in various places that for different groups the seeds can represent wisdom (seeds of knowledge), in Greece it is a symbol of marriage, and many cultures see it as a symbol of fertility / motherhood.  Since my wife is a teacher, has three children, and has to put up with me, I figured to go with the "triple threat" and use three as charges.  The bee is simply to denote her given name (Debra = from the Hebrew for "bee").

As for an angel’s lack of reproductive organs, I was thinking of a demi-angel anyway.  Since its for my wife’s crest, I was…ah…simply concerned…ah…about keeping….ah….the "softer bits," as it were…ah…of a more feminine….uh…aspect.

Yeah, yeah, that’s what I meant.

Get with the program, group!  Explaining myself only leads to trouble! :oops:

DRShorey;44115 wrote:

Is it bad to want to thwap a fellow member of the Society on the head?!

Dave

Yes, dave, it’s very bad. You, however, are probably neither the first nor last who wanted to do that. Though what poor Father Henry did to deserve it eludes me.

WBHenry;44093 wrote:

Shield:  Argent, between three pomegranates slipped leaved and seeded proper, upon a chevron Gules a bee proper.

Crest:  On a wreath of the colors a demi-angel proper vested Argent winged Or holding in the dexter hand a pomegranate (feminine in form).

I would blazon it as follows:

Argent, a chevron Gules charged with a bee volant, between three pomegranates seeded, slipped and leaved Proper.

On a wreath of the colours a demi-angel issuant Proper, winged Or, habited Argent, bearing in the dexter hand a pomegranate Proper.

The only thing that I might propose is to add two more bees volant and then the arrangement of charges would be in the style Sir Thomas Wriothesley, Garter King of Arms (1505-34).

Patrick Williams;44112 wrote:

Hmmm ... gay angels, busy bees, pomegranites and Japanese priests. The diversity of our little group is astonishing. :rolleyes:

I suggest that you read the book Heavenly Genitalia, Dispelling the Myth of Gender Neutral Celestial Beings in their Depiction on late Medieval Flemish and Northern French Tapestries, Linens and Embroideries for more information.

David Pritchard;44007 wrote:

A very tired heraldic symbol for academics.

Read The Oxford Guide to Heraldry and you will get quite a different impression.

Daniel C. Boyer;44143 wrote:

Read The Oxford Guide to Heraldry and you will get quite a different impression.

I was aware that some Medieval writers attributed a different significance to the owl than Classical sources. Just the same, American institutions of learning as well teachers, instructors and professors use the owl (very liberally) as a symbol according to its ancient attributes. It is in this context that the symbolism of the owl has grown very tired.