Fred Thompson Is Not a Friend of Heraldry

 
Hugh Brady
 
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Hugh Brady
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29 July 2007 09:38
 

Fred Thompson, a presumptive candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, had this to say in his critique (taken from here) of the "overfederalization" of criminal law:


<div class=“bbcode_indent” >
Law enforcement in general is a matter on which Congress has been very active in recent years, not always to good effect and usually at the expense of state authority. When I served as a federal prosecutor, there were not all that many federal crimes, and most of those involved federal interests. Since the 1980&#8217;s, however, Congress has aggressively federalized all sorts of crimes that the states have traditionally prosecuted and punished. While these federal laws allow Members of Congress to tell the voters how tough they are on crime, there are few good reasons why most of them are necessary.

For example, it is a specific federal crime to use the symbol of 4-H Clubs with the intent to defraud. And don&#8217;t even think about using the Swiss Confederation&#8217;s coat of arms for commercial purposes. That&#8217;s a federal offense, too.
</div>


May all our Republican primary voters take note!

 
George Lucki
 
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George Lucki
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29 July 2007 11:35
 

Do the 4-H clubs in the US use a coat of arms? In Canada these use a logo device.

The Swiss symbol is a believe protected by treaty.

 

Have democrats come out in support of protecting heraldry and keeping such laws in place?

 
David Pritchard
 
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David Pritchard
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29 July 2007 12:16
 

George Lucki;47980 wrote:

Do the 4-H clubs in the US use a coat of arms? In Canada these use a logo device. The Swiss symbol is a believe protected by treaty. Have democrats come out in support of protecting heraldry and keeping such laws in place?


The 4 H Clubs use a logo. There is a specific federal statute dating from 5 June 1931, [SIZE=-1]18[/SIZE] United States[SIZE=-1] Code § 708, [/SIZE]that protects the arms and flag of Switzerland.

 
Patrick Williams
 
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29 July 2007 13:44
 

Ah. So Mr. Thompson’s statement, which led me to believe that these pieces of legislation are from the 1980’s, is inaccurate.

 
Michael Swanson
 
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Michael Swanson
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29 July 2007 14:46
 

Patrick Williams;47986 wrote:

Ah. So Mr. Thompson’s statement, which led me to believe that these pieces of legislation are from the 1980’s, is inaccurate.


His statement has truthiness, though.

 
MohamedHossam
 
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MohamedHossam
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29 July 2007 15:04
 

We shouldn’t misunderestimate him, though. wink

Cheers,

 
Hugh Brady
 
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Hugh Brady
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29 July 2007 15:23
 

George Lucki;47980 wrote:

Have democrats come out in support of protecting heraldry and keeping such laws in place?


I don’t know. But at least they ain’t publicly agin’ it.

 
Patrick Williams
 
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29 July 2007 17:26
 

*whimper* "Truthiness, misunderestimate"

"Congress has aggressively federalized all sorts of crimes that the states have traditionally prosecuted ... " Looks like we’re in for another four years.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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29 July 2007 17:50
 

Michael Swanson;47990 wrote:

His statement has truthiness, though.


Well yes, to the extent that both emblems are protected by law.  David is correct that the protection of the Swiss arms is pursuant to treaty—it has to do with the Swiss agreeing to the use of their arms in reversed colors as the principal symbol of protected status under the Geneva Conventions.

 

And several organizations like the 4H have their symbols protected by federal law.  Why not?  They are not in commerce, therefore cannot register these emblems as trademarks.  They are a nationwide organization, therefore should not be expected to get protective legislation in 50 states.  This seems very reasonable to me.

 
David Pritchard
 
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29 July 2007 18:47
 

Here is a partial list of United States non-profit and governmental oganistations who have protections under federal statute variously for their names, flags, coats-of-arms, medals, badges, logos, etc.:

    American Ex-Prisoners of War 36 U.S.C. &#167;2115

American Legion 36 U.S.C. &#167;48

The American National Theater and Academy 36 U.S.C. &#167;3305

American Symphony Orchestra League 36 U.S.C. &#167;3416

American Veterans of World War II, Korea, and Vietnam 36 U.S.C. &#167;67p

American War Mothers 36 U.S.C. &#167;100

Big Brothers 36 U.S.C. &#167;895

Big Sisters 36 U.S.C. &#167;895

Blinded Veterans Association 36 U.S.C. &#167;867

Blue Star Mothers of America, Inc. 36 U.S.C. &#167;956

Board for Fundamental Education 36 U.S.C. &#167;516

Boy Scouts of America 36 U.S.C. &#167;27

Central Intelligence Agency 50 U.S.C. &#167;403m

Central Liquidity Facility 18 U.S.C. &#167;709

Civil Air Patrol 36 U.S.C. &#167;206

Commodity Credit Corporation 15 U.S.C. &#167;714m

Department of Housing & Urban Development 18 U.S.C. &#167;709

Disabled American Veterans 36 U.S.C. &#167;90h

Drug Enforcement Administration 18 U.S.C. &#167;709

Fastener Quality Act 15 U.S.C. &#167;5401

The Foundation of the Federal Bar Association 36 U.S.C. &#167;587

4-H Club 18 U.S.C. &#167;707

Federal Bureau of Investigation 18 U.S.C. &#167;709

Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation 18 U.S.C. &#167;709

Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation 12 U.S.C. &#167;1457,12 U.S.C. &#167;1723a

Future Farmers of America 36 U.S.C. &#167;286

Girl Scouts of America 36 U.S.C. &#167;36

The Golden Eagle 18 U.S.C. &#167;715

Government Nationional Mortgage Assoc. 12 U.S.C. &#167;1723a, 18 U.S.C. &#167;709

Ladies of the Grand Army of the Republic 36 U.S.C. &#167;78o

Library of Congress 36 C.F.R. &#167;701.35

Little League; Little Leaguer 36 U.S.C. &#167;1086

Marine Corps 10 U.S.C. &#167;7881

The Military Chaplains Association of the USA 36 U.S.C. &#167;316

National Aeronautics and Space Administration 42 U.S.C. &#167;2459b, 14 C.F.R. &#167;&#167;1221.101, 1221.107

National Agricultural Credit Corporation 18 U.S.C. &#167;709

National Conference of State Societies, Washington,

District of Columbia 36 U.S.C. &#167;418

National Conference on Citizenship 36 U.S.C. &#167;446

National Credit Union 18 U.S.C. &#167;709

National Music Council 36 U.S.C. &#167;676

National Safety Council 36 U.S.C. &#167;477

National Society, Daughters of the American Colonists 36 U.S.C. &#167;2909

National Soc. of the Daughters of the American Revolution 36 U.S.C. &#167;18c

National Women’s Relief Corps, Aux. of the Grand Army of the Republic 36 U.S.C. &#167;1017

Naval Sea Cadet Corps 36 U.S.C. &#167;1056

Non Commissioned Officers Association of the USA 36 U.S.C. &#167;4016

Olympic [and other names] 36 U.S.C. &#167;380

Overseas Private Investment 18 U.S.C. &#167;709

Paralyzed Veterans of America 36 U.S.C. &#167;1160

Pearl Harbor Survivors Association 36 U.S.C. &#167;3615

Peace Corps 22 U.S.C. &#167;2518

Red Cross 18 U.S.C. &#167;706

Reserve Officers Association of the United States 36 U.S.C. &#167;238

Secret Service 18 U.S.C. &#167;709

Smokey Bear 18 U.S.C. &#167;711, 16 U.S.C. &#167;580p, 36 C.F.R. &#167;261.20

Social Security 42 U.S.C. &#167;1320b-10

Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War 36 U.S.C. &#167;547

Swiss Confederation 18 U.S.C. &#167;708

United Service Organizations, Incorporated 36 U.S.C. &#167;1307

United States Capitol Historical Society 36 U.S.C. &#167;1215

United States Mint 18 U.S.C. &#167;709

United States Railway Association 45 U.S.C. &#167;711

United Spanish War Veterans 36 U.S.C. &#167;56f

The United States Blind Veterans of the World War 36 U.S.C. &#167;87

United States Coast Guard 14 U.S.C. &#167;639

    369th Veterans Association 36 U.S.C. &#167;3015

Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States 36 U.S.C. &#167;117

Veterans of World War I of the USA, Incorporated 36 U.S.C. &#167;777

Vietnam Veterans 36 U.S.C. &#167;3816

Woodsy Owl 18 U.S.C. &#167;711a, 16 U.S.C. &#167;590p, 36 C.F.R. &#167;261.20

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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30 July 2007 07:02
 

Gee…wonder why Thompson didn’t decide to go after some of these instead of the kids in 4-H:


Quote:

American Ex-Prisoners of War 36 U.S.C. §2115

American Legion 36 U.S.C. §48

American Veterans of World War II, Korea, and Vietnam 36 U.S.C. §67p

American War Mothers 36 U.S.C. §100

Blinded Veterans Association 36 U.S.C. §867

Blue Star Mothers of America, Inc. 36 U.S.C. §956

Disabled American Veterans 36 U.S.C. §90h

Paralyzed Veterans of America 36 U.S.C. §1160

Pearl Harbor Survivors Association 36 U.S.C. §3615

Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States 36 U.S.C. §117


I mean, if you’re going to take on these tough issues, let’s see some real political guts!

 
Michael Swanson
 
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30 July 2007 07:33
 

National Symbols Program

P. O. Box 96090

Washington, D. C. 20090-6090

http://www.symbols.gov/

This would look nice below one’s shield….

 

http://www.symbols.gov/jrsnowranger/images/02jan08-header.gif

 

Woodsy Owl 18 U.S.C. &#167;711a, 16 U.S.C. &#167;590p, 36 C.F.R. &#167;261.20

But destroy your protected Woody Owl costume:

 

http://www.symbols.gov/woodsy/costume/oldcostume/destroy-costume.shtml

 

...those in possession of these costumes are ordered to burn them "beyond recognition" under the watchful eye of a Forest Service law enforcement officer!

 
MohamedHossam
 
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MohamedHossam
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30 July 2007 15:36
 

Burn them beyond recognition? Words one doesn’t expect to see in any government publication….:D

Yeah, I also think that if this Fred Thompson had used military organizations as an example, it would have been much more powerful and reasonable.

 

Cheers,

 
Hall/Perdue
 
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Hall/Perdue
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30 July 2007 17:45
 

AHH!!! If he is serious about the silliness of protecting logo’s, he should suggest that each of the logo’s used by Westinghouse no longer be protected by federal law.  I suspect he’s not brave enough to challenge his lobbying client and campaign contributor in such an aggressive fashion.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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30 July 2007 22:24
 

MohamedHossam;48082 wrote:

Yeah, I also think that if this Fred Thompson had used military organizations as an example, it would have been much more powerful and reasonable,


Actually, my point was that questioning federal protection of the badges of veterans organizations would be politically suicidal.

 
George Lucki
 
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30 July 2007 22:56
 

Joseph McMillan;48096 wrote:

Actually, my point was that questioning federal protection of the badges of veterans organizations would be politically suicidal.


Agreed. Which is why this politician naturally picked on children (4-H) and foreigners (Swiss) -  they aren’t voters.