Hello, everyone!  As some of you already know, I abandoned my arms a couple of months ago, as they could be construed as usurping the Arms of Greece.  To refresh your memory, those arms were blazoned Argent, within a border Azure, an inescutcheon of the Second charged with a cross of the First.  Since then, I have gone through a wide variety of possible designs—so many that I can’t even remember them all!  :rolleyes:  I have finally narrowed it down to a single design, which is blazoned Argent, a passion cross urdy voided Azure.  This is, interestingly enough, a radical departure from the previous design.  Before I submit these arms for registration at the USHR, I must, of course, be certain that they aren’t someone else’s arms already.  Has anyone of you ever come across anything like these arms?  I appreciate any input/advice that you guys may wish to volunteer!  :D

The closest I’ve seen to your new design is for Dunkinfield, who bore Argent, a cross urdy voided Sable.

Stephen, although I do not know of anyone who bears (or who has borne) your proposed arms, when you get into a design that bears a single cross of any kind, it is unlikely that your choice will be unique. That being said; as long as nobody else in the US bears them, or they are not royal or governmental arms, then you’re in the clear!

Thanks, Sandy and Patrick!  If there’s anyone else who has seen or heard of arms similar to what I’ve proposed, then I’m keenly interested in knowing about them.  Also, would it be a good idea to cross-reference the domestic registries?  Would that even be feasible?

Is there a particular reason for the cross urde?  As you also had a simple cross before, a reason for the pointed one this time?

Stephen R. Hickman;64121 wrote:

Thanks, Sandy and Patrick!  If there’s anyone else who has seen or heard of arms similar to what I’ve proposed, then I’m keenly interested in knowing about them.  Also, would it be a good idea to cross-reference the domestic registries?  Would that even be feasible?

Feasible .... yes. Inexpensive .... no. To do this you would probably have to register at each of the domestics ... not an inexpensive proposition.

xanderliptak;64123 wrote:

Is there a particular reason for the cross urde?  As you also had a simple cross before, a reason for the pointed one this time?

I think (and believe me, I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong) that because his last coa so closely resembled the arms of the king of Greece, that he’s switching out the cross design to avoid any resemblace.

Oh ... and by the way, submit your arms for registration with Mike. That’s free, as I remember. Then you can buy the other stuff once the design passes muster.

With this simple a design, I have to say that just posing the question about duplication in a web forum really doesn’t suffice, in my view, as a good faith effort to avoid duplication. I’d suggest as a minimum hitting a serious library and checking as many references as you can. Get the blazon translated into French, German, etc., and Google for possible other arms of the same design. I doubt that the Augustan Society, ACH, or USHR have registered arms of this design, but the latter has its registrations on line and the former two have published rolls of arms—check them out as well.

I assume, because you have specified a passion cross, that you want to make sure it has the longer base. While I do adhere to the notion that simpler designs are the ideal of good heraldry, I have to say that this design looks like it comes from an exemplar page of heraldic crosses. Have you considered something as simple as dividing the shield per pale and counterchanging the cross?

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/763/hickmanstephenky8.gif

I was wondering what you meant specifically by a "passion cross". A cross with the lower arm being longer than the other three is blazoned as a "Latin cross".

Fox-Davies writes:
Quote:

The Sacred Cross, therefore, in heraldry is now known as a "Passion Cross" (or sometimes as a "long cross")....

There are several other sources that refer to it this way.

Alexander, the reasons for the passion cross urdy (urde?)  is, like Patrick said, because I don’t want to even seem to usurp another’s arms, but also because it resembles a sword, blade down.  This symbolizes my willingness to fight, not to impose my faith, but to simply practice it.  It also seems to be a very rarely used cross form, which is honestly quite beyond me.

Patrick, about the USHR, been there, done that, had a great time, will go back.  :D

Ah, well with that definition, may I suggest, Argent a cross urde fitchy azure voided?

Though with the cross voided, there would be but a thin line making the cross.  Perhaps, given your cause of religion, having the voided cross marked with a few martlets?

I had actually considered fitchy, but I had decided that it wouldn’t look quite right.  Besides, any cross urdy has a lower arm which comes to a point, so I didn’t see the point in a fitchy point.  Yes, the pun was intended.  :p BTW, I’m not sure exactly what a martlet is.  :(

Dear Stephen,

I am pleased that you gave up your earlier armorial device. It was mundane and uninspired without even mentioning the Greek connection.

The Passion Cross or Latin Cross is my least favorite shape of the many forms of the cross. My reasons are two fold, it is asymmetrical and it is commonly chosen by persons of very rudimentary faith who believe that Christ was crucified on a cross of this form. If one wants to show a connection to their Christian faith one can do that by using any of the symmetrical, more beautiful cross shapes.

Why would you want the Passion Cross to be Urdee? It is as if you were trying to find the ugliest design so you would know that no one had ever used it before you. One can design simple and beautiful arms and then research the blazon for uniqueness. That is why I am not selling my copy of Papworth’s Armorial.

Just as an example off the top of my head one could have Argent, a cross patonce Azure charged with a couped cross Or. The corresponding badge would be: I]A cross patonce Azure charged with a couped cross Or. Of course the form of the outer cross and the tinctures could take many variations, i.e. flory, fleuretty, botonny, moline et al.