Symbols for Bohemia

 
Dcgb7f
 
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Dcgb7f
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12 February 2011 10:51
 

I’m helping a friend design a coat of arms for himself, and he strongly wants to allude to his Bohemian ancestry. He has suggested using the lion rampant from the Bohemian coat of arms or the red and yellow from its flag. It’s been somewhat difficult to incorporate one or the other of these with some of the other elements he wishes to have. I’m trying to find more options for Bohemia, which could perhaps fit the overall composition better.

Does anyone know of other traditionally used symbols for Bohemia besides the colors of its flag and arms.

 
Joseph McMillan
 
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Joseph McMillan
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12 February 2011 11:40
 

I would strongly recommend against using the lion—not telling Daniel anything he doesn’t know, but having ancestors from a country doesn’t justify appropriating the emblems of that country’s sovereignty for personal arms.  The linden is the national tree, so linden leaves are a good symbol of Czech identity (but also Slovak, Slovene, and others), but in my opinion using them in personal arms is merely the Bohemian equivalent of a thistle for Scottish, a leek for Welsh, etc.  It may not be one of the original shapes in a box of magically delicious Lucky Charms, but it could have been.

A better approach, in my opinion, would be to design the arms in the Czech/Bohemian style.  The Czech Genealogy and Heraldry Society has an on-line roll at http://www.genealogie.cz/en/aktivity/osobni-znaky/ of arms it has registered, which may offer some ideas.  The Academy of Heraldic Sciences of the Czech Republic also has a "heraldicky galerie" and a "heraldicky registr" linked from http://www.ahn-cr.info/english.htm.

 

By the way, the Bohemian flag, as far as I know, is white and red, not red and yellow.  A yellow-red bicolor is the flag of Prague, and there’s a history of yellow-red sometimes being used for Moravia.

 
Jochen
 
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Jochen
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12 February 2011 12:53
 

I doubt a bit whether something like a typically Bohemian style (unless in details, of course) really exists.

As an integral part of the Holy Roman Empire (the Bohemian king was one of the Princes-Elector) it is not too astonishing that Bohemian coats-of-arms are rather HRE-style.

 

My first choice would always be a canting arms. If you are allowed to disclose your friend’s family name, maybe we could help a bit (e.g. "Kafka" = jackdaw).

 
Michael Y. Medvedev
 
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Michael Y. Medvedev
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12 February 2011 13:21
 

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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/CZ-Cechy-znak.png
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What I would recommend is a field (or a part thereof) semy of heart-shaped linden leaves, or charged with these sans nombre, this being an allusion to the royal Bohemian crest. Maybe leaves Argent in a field Gules would be a decent choise.
<div class=“bbcode_center” >
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Čechy.jpg
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Aquilo
 
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Aquilo
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12 February 2011 18:25
 

Michael, it might be silly what I want to say now, but I just read an article by Romilly Squire on ‘Scots Fake Titles ‘web site about the eagle ‘s feathers to be used in moderation smile) and seeing this gorgeous design I couldn’t stop thinking about it ...and all those linden leaves ...isn’t it much too much in one ? My first impression is that they are little yellow hearts and making them Argent in the field Gules or vice versa could be even more confusing.

Isn’t originally the Bohemian coat of arms the one of Premyslids dynasty ?

This one has just two twigs with linden leaves if I remember ...

 
Michael Y. Medvedev
 
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Michael Y. Medvedev
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13 February 2011 04:07
 

Dear Anna, the linden stuff is pretty common for Bohemian heraldry - not being exclusively regal at all - and actually the crest of the Realm was AFAIK, since its definitive formation, a pair of wings (often shewn closed) semy (save the long feathers) of the leaves. Approximately like that -

http://bitov.czweb.org/1_2/erb02.jpg

 
Dohrman Byers
 
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Dohrman Byers
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13 February 2011 16:29
 

To show one’s Bohemian heritage, rather than usurping the national symbols, one could adopt canting arms based on a Czech pun and perhaps a motto in Czech.

 
Iain Boyd
 
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Iain Boyd
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13 February 2011 17:10
 

Personally, I like linden leaves - semee or perhaps just three. Also, I would not object to a demi, double tailed lion in the crest - holding something, though.

If a canting design can be produced - that would be great, in my opinion.

 

Regards,

 

Iain Boyd

 
Jochen
 
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Jochen
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14 February 2011 15:09
 

I found at last two items with the epitheton "bohemian" (to be precise: "böhmisch" since I found them in the German wikipedia):

The Bohemian Harp: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Böhmische_Harfe

 

And the Bohemian Gentian: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Böhmischer_Enzian

 

Both would make up very decorative and respectable charges (although purpure would be a very, very rare tincture in Bohemian heraldry).

 
Michael F. McCartney
 
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Michael F. McCartney
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14 February 2011 16:02
 

Assuming the friend is also an American, a harp—however authentically Bohemian—would likely be seen by most folk in these parts as an Irish reference.

IMO (and perhaps self-serving smile ) use of "lucky charms"-type symbols of ethnic origin are only objectionable when they are the primary or only charge.  IMO their use as relatively minor charges—semee behind, or in orle around, some more uniquely personal or familial charge—isn’t objectionable.  They do suggest "background" but hopefully not overpoweringly so.

 

In this case, again IMO, a field Sable semee of linden leaves Or, or an orle of linden leaves Or on a Sable field, wouldn’t be inappropriate & could be quite attractive.  The trick would be to choose a main charge or charges based on the family name or other non-generic nature—e.g. the jackdaw previously suggested for one Czech surname.

 

I specified Or & Sable in this case because another color combination might suggest other origins, e.g. Danish or Frisian or Berliner.

 

I would not suggest the Bohemian lion for reasons already expressed by others—also, a field semee of itty-bitty lioncels crowned would be overly busy & visually murky.  But maybe a lion’s footprint would look nice—but unlikely to say "Bohemian" to the casual observer.

 

But these are only personal observations & suggestions.

 
Dcgb7f
 
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Dcgb7f
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14 February 2011 16:05
 

Thanks for all the ideas. My personal favorite was the seme of linden leaves. I still wish he would have chosen the draft I made using a seme of linden leaves. Unfortunately, he didn’t like it.

While he was insistent on a lion, I was able to convince him that a white lion rampant was an improper adoption. We settled on a lion passant Or, which fits the over all design many time better than a lion rampant would have.

 

When I post the finalized version, I’m sure you’ll all agree that the royal Bohemian arms were not usurped in any way.

 
Michael Y. Medvedev
 
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Michael Y. Medvedev
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16 February 2011 08:35
 

Dohrman Byers;81455 wrote:

To show one’s Bohemian heritage, rather than usurping the national symbols, one could adopt canting arms based on a Czech pun and perhaps a motto in Czech.

Absolutely, dear Father. But my point was that distantly echoing some motifs of the Bohemian national heraldry does not neccessary turn into an usurpation. Actually I did not recommend leaves Or in a field Sa - this is IMHO too close to the regal prototype.

 
Michael Y. Medvedev
 
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Michael Y. Medvedev
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16 February 2011 08:37
 

Dcgb7f;81463 wrote:

When I post the finalized version, I’m sure you’ll all agree that the royal Bohemian arms were not usurped in any way.

I never had any doubt that your interpretation will be trespassing no sacred borders smile

 
Andemicael
 
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Andemicael
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24 May 2011 14:47
 

Another option might be to dig a little deeper into your family history as it relates to Bohemia and go beyond national symbols, which could apply to a great many people.

Where specifically in Bohemia did your ancestors live? What town even? What was their trade?

Perhaps there are very specific qualities to their time, place and situation that could be reflected in your charges.

 

 

I really like the idea of the motto being in Czech, Slovene, etc. That might be all you need.