Wondering what everyone on here thinks about designing arms for an ancestor, and whether designing arms for an ancestor might be impossible in some instances. In particular I was wondering if those who have wrestled with this situation could pass on what your rationale was.
If I’m going to design arms for this ancestor, one main goal would be to end the usurping of the English branch of the family’s arms. I would want them to be used by more than just me.
My maternal family (the Rathbun/Rathbone clan) all descend from one particular family who came from Blackpool, England in 1655. At the head of this family was John Rathbone. In fact, almost everyone in North American with the surnames Rathbun or Rathbone can probably count him as an ancestor. He was a prominent resident of Block Island, RI and was a member of the Rhode Island general assembly. In fact, the anchor Or on my crest is an allusion to the anchor in the arms of the state of Rhode Island.
Certainly someone worthy of remembering, but here’s the problem; the Rathbun family and the Rathbun family association almost usually usurp the arms of the Rathbone family of Greenbank, England. In fact I have a printed-out family history with these arms on the cover.
How do I go about getting other people on involved? Who else did those of you who have been through this consult?
Thanks
Mr. Olivo, I am in the minority here with this opinion, but I believe that attributing arms to ancestors is my least favorite option. I am more in support for choosing arms to attribute to a family association. This is, of course, just a friendly opinion and I know that most others here will weigh in on the opposite opinion. 
Jeffrey Boyd Garrison;84209 wrote:
I am more in support for choosing arms to attribute to a family association.
+1. This distant ancestor had the opportunity to assume arms while he was alive. He didn’t. It seems presumptious to posthumously assign arms to him.
Assuming arms for the family association seems like a better idea.
<sigh> Jeffery, David - UNLESS you are assuming them for a close relative to honor his/her memory…. <don’t argue with me on this one, it’s been a rough week already and I’ve explained it elsewhere and I’ve been at work since 5:00 AM and - Just save it for tomorrow!>
Yep, I think the family association is a better idea…
Kathy McClurg;84216 wrote:
<sigh> Jeffery, David - UNLESS you are assuming them for a close relative to honor his/her memory…. <don’t argue with me on this one, it’s been a rough week already and I’ve explained it elsewhere and I’ve been at work since 5:00 AM and - Just save it for tomorrow!>
Yep, I think the family association is a better idea…
Sorry you are havin’ a rough week Kathy.
Imagine one of our descendants designed arms for us. How would we feel about it?
I see everyone’s point about arms for a family association rather than an individual. But since my goal is to prevent the ongoing usurpation of the English Rathbone arms, it seems that very few people would actually know about it (only those few active in the association).
How does one shout louder than the bucket shops? I think that maybe I’m just biting of more than I can chew.
Jeffrey Boyd Garrison;84209 wrote:
I am more in support for choosing arms to attribute to a family association. This is, of course, just a friendly opinion and I know that most others here will weigh in on the opposite opinion.
What exactly is meant by a family association?
jcar;84243 wrote:
What exactly is meant by a family association?
Usually this means a geneologically based enclave which shares information based on a surname and/or common ancestor. It can also include family reunion event organization as well.
I can imagine there may be more to a family association (sometimes read as surname society), though I have only read about them and I am not a member of any so I do not have access to details.
There is no reason you cannot start your own for a more recent ancestor, but there may already exist one for distant ancestors so it would be good to check?
Mark Olivo;84241 wrote:
How does one shout louder than the bucket shops? I think that maybe I’m just biting of more than I can chew.
:D
Mark - Does the ancestor in question have a living direct male descendant? If so, then that person would assumably be the person who would "inherit" these arms. How does this person and other male descendants feel about such a design? Do you track down all living ones and get their approval? I don’t know how big your family is, but it would seem the right thing to do and potentially difficult and possibly exasperating.
lucduerloo;84240 wrote:
Imagine one of our descendants designed arms for us. How would we feel about it?
Exactly
Kathy McClurg;84216 wrote:
<sigh> Jeffery, David - UNLESS you are assuming them for a close relative to honor his/her memory…. <don’t argue with me on this one, it’s been a rough week already and I’ve explained it elsewhere and I’ve been at work since 5:00 AM and - Just save it for tomorrow!>
Yep, I think the family association is a better idea…
Kathy,
Sorry. Didn’t mean to hit a nerve. I haven’t been tracking what you’re referring to, but don’t mean to offend.
David
Mark Olivo;84241 wrote:
I see everyone’s point about arms for a family association rather than an individual. But since my goal is to prevent the ongoing usurpation of the English Rathbone arms, it seems that very few people would actually know about it (only those few active in the association).
How does one shout louder than the bucket shops? I think that maybe I’m just biting of more than I can chew.
Most bucket shops have some type of coat of arms for just about any surname. (Except most seem to lack one for Stolarz haha). There isn’t a whole lot you can do about it unfortunately though. Continued education to the general public on heraldry is the best solution.
Mark Olivo;84204 wrote:
My maternal family (the Rathbun/Rathbone clan) all descend from one particular family who came from Blackpool, England in 1655. At the head of this family was John Rathbone. In fact, almost everyone in North American with the surnames Rathbun or Rathbone can probably count him as an ancestor. He was a prominent resident of Block Island, RI and was a member of the Rhode Island general assembly. In fact, the anchor Or on my crest is an allusion to the anchor in the arms of the state of Rhode Island.
I assume there is no evidence that this gentleman used a coat of arms?
Mark Olivo;84241 wrote:
How does one shout louder than the bucket shops? I think that maybe I’m just biting of more than I can chew.
I’m still a little confused on what exactly a family association is. It almost sounds like a surname group or something…but I don’t think that it is. Somebody help me :p
